- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: The following QB's had worse Efficiency ratings than JJ
Posted on 12/15/09 at 3:43 pm to PokerPlayingTiger
Posted on 12/15/09 at 3:43 pm to PokerPlayingTiger
quote:This.
I think this post proves exactly the point the original poster was trying to make. The difference between the two is that McElroy had a solid OL in front of him and a running game to go with it. You can also probably throw in the fact that Alabama was much more efficient in getting plays into the huddle and snapped without delay of game penalties or having to call timeouts. So those 3 factors IMO contributed to the different offensive rankings for both teams.
It should be noted, however, that JJ was much better than McElroy in the red zone. Not sure what caused Alabama's funk in the red zone but they had a really rough time once they got there.
People want to throw the player under the bus, because it's convenient and requires the least amount of thought.
Further investigation, which I have provided throughout this thread, shows that JJ was a result of bad offensive coaching all around (OL, QB), and absurd playcalling.
2
Posted on 12/15/09 at 3:52 pm to Roaad
It's not throwing a player under the bus by pointing out the obv things that he is responsbile for that factor in to this unmade up number of 108.
Posted on 12/15/09 at 3:53 pm to Roaad
quote:
absurd playcalling.
I just thought crowton was joking most of the time
Posted on 12/15/09 at 3:56 pm to TheDoc
quote:he was.
I just thought crowton was joking most of the time
He was thinking, " they won't believe this shite."
Posted on 12/15/09 at 3:59 pm to TIGRLEE
quote:
It's not throwing a player under the bus by pointing out the obv things that he is responsbile for that factor in to this unmade up number of 108.
My only problem is the people that try to put it solely on his shoulders. It was a collective cluster-frick from the top down. HOWEVER, I'll put more criticism on the guys making 6 or 7 figures to coach a game than on a 19 year old playing for free (and spare me the bullshite they get an education in return, I get it).
Posted on 12/15/09 at 4:05 pm to MightyYat
to put it soley on JJs shoulders is as absurd as saying none of it is on JJs shoulders.
Posted on 12/15/09 at 4:10 pm to TIGRLEE
quote:
to put it soley on JJs shoulders is as absurd as saying none of it is on JJs shoulders.
Which I've never done. He was definitely part of the problem but his mistakes can be corrected by the bigger part of the problem. That's the part that scares the shite out of me. I'm not sure they're capable of getting the most out of any QB on the roster right now.
Posted on 12/15/09 at 4:16 pm to MightyYat
I agree
Posted on 12/15/09 at 4:39 pm to Sammobile
quote:
claiming to work for NASA and still being so stupid
This is quite possibly true. Working for NASA does not preclude one from being stupid.
Before anyone gets their panties in a wad... I am just kiddin'!
Sort of.
Posted on 12/15/09 at 4:47 pm to Roaad
quote:
Throw it away like Lee did?
No. Lee threw into traffic. Throwing it away means throwing it out of bounds where no one can catch it.
quote:
Kid also showed flashes of brilliance
Did he have moments of good and possibly great QB play? Sure, but no where close to brilliant.
quote:
A decently coached OL might help
Now this is true. I believe the sacks were a 50/50 split as to who was at fault. Half the time the line didn't block well enough, and the other half JJ held the ball way, way, way too long and/or didn't step up into the pocket. Sometimes even stepping back into the d-linemen.
quote:
You had people bitching about him stepping into a pocket that didn't exist most of the season.
You're right. It wasn't there "most" of the season. Take out the part of the season where we ran the ball which eliminates the need for a pocket (yes I am being a smart arse but only because its to you), then half of the pass plays the OL didn't block well. That leaves half the pass plays where there was a sufficient pocket to step into. So yeah, about a quarter of the season there was a pocket to step into. You're right...not most.
Just for you Roadd:
This post was edited on 12/15/09 at 4:54 pm
Posted on 12/15/09 at 5:13 pm to Chicot
I thought JJ did a pretty good job. very good at times, so-so at others. passer rating does not tell the whole story. It does not take into account whether or not the correct checks were made at the line to get us into a more desireable play, but neither I nor probably anyone else on this board could give examples of him not getting us into the right play. the assumption is there because of all the check with me stuff we did early on. As has been mentioned, Miles said this was to help take some of the burden off JJ. In other words, he wasn't doing a good job of it early in the year.
another thing to consider about the sacks is that we run a bunch of free release stuff and expect the QB (and WR) to make hot reads. for example if the will backer is the hot read and he comes then the designated hot receiver must recognize it and break off his route. the QB must recognize it and throw hot. if either didn't see it then it results very quickly in a QB sack and what looks like a busted assignment by the OL. Having said that, plenty of the sacks seemed to be a result of either blown assignments by the OL or poor technique by OL or backs on play action. Others were a result of a work in progress internal clock by JJ.
I think JJ progressed throughout the course of the season. It certainly looked like more was expected of him as the season progressed. He still has some bad habits but I see him developing into an all-sec type guy by his SR season.
another thing to consider about the sacks is that we run a bunch of free release stuff and expect the QB (and WR) to make hot reads. for example if the will backer is the hot read and he comes then the designated hot receiver must recognize it and break off his route. the QB must recognize it and throw hot. if either didn't see it then it results very quickly in a QB sack and what looks like a busted assignment by the OL. Having said that, plenty of the sacks seemed to be a result of either blown assignments by the OL or poor technique by OL or backs on play action. Others were a result of a work in progress internal clock by JJ.
I think JJ progressed throughout the course of the season. It certainly looked like more was expected of him as the season progressed. He still has some bad habits but I see him developing into an all-sec type guy by his SR season.
Posted on 12/15/09 at 5:18 pm to pilsnerpusher
quote:
pilsnerpusher
The best thoughtout post in a long time on the Rant. I agree with 99% of what you had to say. My only concern is that I didn't see a whole lot of improvement in the season. Not saying it didn't happen, because like you said more may have been expected of him. Like perhaps more difficult plays were possibly being called. But I just didn't see improvement in his mechanics and pocket awareness.
ETA: Before some A-holes jump all over me again...I have never once said that he couldn't be a very good QB for us before he leaves though.
This post was edited on 12/15/09 at 5:20 pm
Posted on 12/15/09 at 5:35 pm to Chicot
he does have a bit of a wind up on his delivery but plenty of guys have a slower wind up. Tebow drops the ball before he throws. It'll be one of those things that costs him a little money in april but I don't think it affected him for the last 3 years.
I don't disagree with you about JJ's pocket awareness, but I'd rather have a guy who has a slow clock early in his career than one that craps on himself and panics if his primary isn't open or if the defense gives him a different post snap look than he was expecting. It takes time and experience but you can speed somebody's clock up (some guys just have it naturally, some have to develop it) but you can't get the chickenshit out of somebody that sees the rush instead of feeling it.
just my 2 cents.
I don't disagree with you about JJ's pocket awareness, but I'd rather have a guy who has a slow clock early in his career than one that craps on himself and panics if his primary isn't open or if the defense gives him a different post snap look than he was expecting. It takes time and experience but you can speed somebody's clock up (some guys just have it naturally, some have to develop it) but you can't get the chickenshit out of somebody that sees the rush instead of feeling it.
just my 2 cents.
This post was edited on 12/15/09 at 5:36 pm
Posted on 12/15/09 at 5:38 pm to Roaad
quote:
The following QB's had worse Efficiency ratings than JJ
JaMarcus Russell 2005
Posted on 12/15/09 at 6:17 pm to Chicot
quote:And those usually ended in sacks, except for those plays where JJ used his exceptional escapability to make something happen.
then half of the pass plays the OL didn't block well.
quote:So you are saying that he made mistakes that pretty much any 1st year starter would have made with such crappy OL play. If not, please provide a list of 1st year starting QB's that would have taken far less sacks with the same OL, while also throwing six or less INT's.
Now this is true. I believe the sacks were a 50/50 split as to who was at fault. Half the time the line didn't block well enough, and the other half JJ held the ball way, way, way too long and/or didn't step up into the pocket. Sometimes even stepping back into the d-linemen.
I'll wait.
Posted on 12/15/09 at 6:19 pm to TigerFan55555
tweedle dick? What are you 12? I've forgot about more women than you've masturbated too. I in no way have a crush on jefferson. Ita the fact that you spew bulshit about going through progression when in actuality nobody on this frickin board knows if he goes through his reads or not. Its something people heard in a nfl game and just label a qb with. Lsu was the only school with 2 recievers rannked in the top 50. Also , qbs that don't go through reads, usually throw ints( hence the staring down 1 reciever). If you'd played qb you'd know this, rather than coming on here running that dick sucker of yours
Posted on 12/15/09 at 6:27 pm to pilsnerpusher
quote:This again is another assumption. Based on what happened in the previous years, I think it was because Crowton's a-hole puckered up at the thought of another year with 7 pick-6's.
It does not take into account whether or not the correct checks were made at the line to get us into a more desireable play, but neither I nor probably anyone else on this board could give examples of him not getting us into the right play. the assumption is there because of all the check with me stuff we did early on. As has been mentioned, Miles said this was to help take some of the burden off JJ. In other words, he wasn't doing a good job of it early in the year.
quote:If this is true, we have the dumbest OC in the history of forever. Are there some 1st year starting QB's that are capable of making "hot reads"?
another thing to consider about the sacks is that we run a bunch of free release stuff and expect the QB (and WR) to make hot reads. for example if the will backer is the hot read and he comes then the designated hot receiver must recognize it and break off his route. the QB must recognize it and throw hot.
Yes, but they have names like Manning, Brees, and such. If you have 1st year QB's that are expected to make hot reads in the SEC, despite showing no proficiency for doing so, you should be fired. End of conversation.
quote:I agree with all of this. I would say, of the 30 sacks taken this year, five or less were Jefferson's fault.
Having said that, plenty of the sacks seemed to be a result of either blown assignments by the OL or poor technique by OL or backs on play action. Others were a result of a work in progress internal clock by JJ.
quote:Again we are in agreement. With the current staff, though, Jefferson will look the same his SR year as he does now.
I think JJ progressed throughout the course of the season. It certainly looked like more was expected of him as the season progressed. He still has some bad habits but I see him developing into an all-sec type guy by his SR season.
Posted on 12/15/09 at 6:28 pm to pilsnerpusher
quote:BOOM!
I don't disagree with you about JJ's pocket awareness, but I'd rather have a guy who has a slow clock early in his career than one that craps on himself and panics if his primary isn't open or if the defense gives him a different post snap look than he was expecting. It takes time and experience but you can speed somebody's clock up (some guys just have it naturally, some have to develop it) but you can't get the chickenshit out of somebody that sees the rush instead of feeling it.
Posted on 12/15/09 at 6:28 pm to The Boat
quote:
JaMarcus Russell 2005
SONIC
B
O
O
M
Posted on 12/15/09 at 6:32 pm to Roaad
Please tell me you are not implying that JJ somehow > JR.
Page 12 of 32
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News