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re: The difference between JL and JJ.

Posted on 10/11/11 at 12:34 pm to
Posted by LSUPHILLY72
Member since Aug 2010
5359 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 12:34 pm to
quote:

Thanks for explaining/showing our "fans" the difference between and fade and an out.....wow...our fanbase is amazing.


Next...I will teach them the difference between a hand off and a pitch
Posted by The Gooch
Houston, TX
Member since Nov 2009
1254 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 12:36 pm to
quote:

Next...I will teach them the difference between a hand off and a pitch


Posted by LSUPHILLY72
Member since Aug 2010
5359 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 12:39 pm to
quote:

Hell, there was a corner and a safety on the receiver. It is really that simple.



RR had hi/low coverage.

I guess since he lined up against single coverage most people didn't see the other DB sprint to jump the underneath route. If JJ throws the ball to the receiver where he could catch it...it's a Pick 6 the other way.

It's a chess game and Florida made the right move...so Jefferson did the right thing.

If you watch the game once, drunk, and listen to the announcers I guess it looks like a horrible throw. But if you are sober, tape the game, and watch it in slow motion you see exactly what Jefferson saw and you can see the throw was thrown out of bounds on purpose.

Crazy that some of these fans still wonder why he didn't look at another receiver on that play?
Posted by LSU GrandDad
houston, texas
Member since Jun 2009
21564 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 12:39 pm to
i'm not going to read 60 posts but i call bull shite on the op's simple analysis. EVERY QB cannot make EVERY TYPE of play. JL can make some types of plays JJ can't (although the op's example is wrong as hell because JJ can make that play) and JJ can make some plays that JL can't. this JJ vs JL shite is getting old.
Posted by Neako27blitzz
Baton rouge
Member since Sep 2011
3182 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 12:41 pm to
Good analysis. Only disagreement I have is that JJ I think makes way more mistakes than Lee
Posted by The Gooch
Houston, TX
Member since Nov 2009
1254 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 12:43 pm to
quote:

RR had hi/low coverage.

I guess since he lined up against single coverage most people didn't see the other DB sprint to jump the underneath route. If JJ throws the ball to the receiver where he could catch it...it's a Pick 6 the other way.

It's a chess game and Florida made the right move...so Jefferson did the right thing.

If you watch the game once, drunk, and listen to the announcers I guess it looks like a horrible throw. But if you are sober, tape the game, and watch it in slow motion you see exactly what Jefferson saw and you can see the throw was thrown out of bounds on purpose.


This and only this.....
Posted by inebr8ted tiger
Arkansas
Member since Aug 2007
1395 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 2:38 pm to
quote:

what big mistakes are you referring to? the one interception this year

or talking about 3 years ago when he was a FRESHMAN starting in the sec


I'm talking about any mistakes he may have made, but might still make.

Which brings me to my next point. Some of the passes that were intercepted 3 years ago, might not have been all J. Lee's fault. If he is throwing to where the receiver should be and the receiver isn't there...?
Posted by inebr8ted tiger
Arkansas
Member since Aug 2007
1395 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 2:46 pm to
quote:

You really don't understand football do you Such a pity.
The QB "reads" the coverage. If he sees that the WR is covered, he throws the fu cking ball away. Which is exactly what JJ did. You don't just blindly throw to a "spot" without reading the coverage you dolt.


Watch the play in the Florida game from '10.

Was Tolliver covered? The answer was yes he was, but it was single coverage. Throw the ball up and outside, and let your receiver go get it.

Here's what you don't understand about that particular play. In both instances.

The play, against single coverage, will go one of 2 ways. If the defender is playing for the slant (lined up close to the LOS and slightly to the inside of the receiver) then the receiver goes to the fade. If the defender plays the fade (off the LOS and directly in front of the receiver) then the receiver runs a slant pattern. It is critical that both the QB and receiver read the same thing at the LOS. So perhaps JJ read the slant, and RR read the fade.

I've played enough Madden to know my damn foozball. plus, I listen to Finebaum and he knows everything.
Posted by TigersOfGeauxld
Just across the water...
Member since Aug 2009
25057 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 2:52 pm to
quote:

JJ 's throwing motion still looks like a slow motion windmill. I keep waiting for Don Quixote to ride by with a lance.


Posted by inebr8ted tiger
Arkansas
Member since Aug 2007
1395 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 2:53 pm to
quote:

i'm not going to read 60 posts but i call bull shite on the op's simple analysis. EVERY QB cannot make EVERY TYPE of play. JL can make some types of plays JJ can't (although the op's example is wrong as hell because JJ can make that play) and JJ can make some plays that JL can't. this JJ vs JL shite is getting old.


Your a complete moron. That was my original point. Thanks for making it for me.
Posted by lake chuck fan
westlake
Member since Aug 2011
18506 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 2:59 pm to
quote:

J. Lee threw a TD in the 2010 game against Florida to win the game on the very same play call.

He ran that play twice in a row.... remember?
I dont see JL making the mistakes this season you speak of.... but I do see JL as a more complete qb that keeps his composure and can think without panicking... JJ will never be a complete qb, we are way better off with JL. as he has already proven.... if anyone still cant see that then they are either stupid or blind
Posted by Jumbeauxlaya
LSU
Member since Jan 2011
18083 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 9:31 pm to
quote:


39 career TDs with double digits in both passing and rushing TDs.

Seems "dual-threat" like to me, but each to our own.


designed runs and designed passes.. the true dual threats are cam and vick and tebow.. the play breaks down and they make a rushing TD happen.
Posted by CajunFootball
Jackson, Mississippi
Member since Oct 2010
19432 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 9:35 pm to
Pretty good analysis.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
131545 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 9:40 pm to
quote:

but it is the reason J. Lee makes more mistakes,
Very few, FWIW, this year. JL'08 =/= JL'11. Not nearly. Not close.

Please don't tell that to our opponents though.
Posted by Carson123987
Middle Court at the Rec
Member since Jul 2011
67377 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 9:49 pm to
great analysis
Posted by thekingfish225
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2010
497 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 11:04 pm to
Amazing post. Try out for QB coach next season
Posted by tiggerthetooth
Big Momma's House
Member since Oct 2010
63003 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 11:12 pm to
I just think Lee gives us a better chance of getting the ball into our playmakers hands such as Randle, Shepard, Ware, Ford, Beckham, Peterson etc. If Jefferson is the QB half of the touches go directly to him practically, so that cuts their chance of getting the ball in half. Who would you rather the ball in their hands? Rueben Randle or Jefferson with the game on the line?
Posted by just me
Front of the Class: Schooling You
Member since Mar 2006
34489 posts
Posted on 10/11/11 at 11:28 pm to
The OP analysis is deeply flawed.

The 2010 play was a fade. Toliver makes his cut just before he crosses the goalline. Toliver's cut is slow diagonal route, about 45 degrees from straight downfield, and directly away from the QB. The QB's pass takes more time to arrive because a fade route pass is lofted; thus, the fade route pass must be thrown early.

The 2011 was an in/out option. The drive route was covered, so Randle ran an out route. Randle does not run a fade route. Randle does not make a diagonal cut just before the goalline. To the contrary, Randle runs five yards into the endzone before he makes a hard 90 degree cut to the sideline. An out route requires a lot of zip on the pass. Thus, it is thrown a split second before the receiver makes his cut. In this case, Randle was the only receiver and was double covered. Jefferson made the right choice to throw the ball away.

quote:

J. Lee threw a TD in the 2010 game against Florida to win the game on the very same play call.
It was not the same play call.

(1) The formation was completely different.

(2) The number of receivers in the route was completely different.

(3) The coverage was significantly different because of the difference in the number of receivers.

(3) The length of the route was completely different.

(4) The type of route was completely different.

(5) The type of throw required to complete the pass was completely different.

quote:

JJ takes the snap, but doesn't throw the ball. He watches RR, then throws the ball away.
Close. Jefferson has to wait longer for Randle in 2011 than Lee had to wait for Toliver in 2010 because Randle's route is longer, and the type of throw required is different.

Toliver runs 1 yard and cuts soft in a fade route. Lee has to throw early because a fade route pass is lofted and takes more time to arrive. Thus, Toliver has a shorter route before cut (1 yard), and Lee has a shorter time to throw ball because pass is lofted. Result: QB must make pass very quickly.

Randle runs 11 yards and cuts hard in an out route. Jefferson must wait until just before Randle cuts to throw the ball because an out route is thrown on a rope and takes less time to arrive. Result: QB must hold on to ball until just before reciever makes cut. Jefferson cannot throw the ball before Randle runs 1 yard, or 5 yards. Jefferson must wait until Randle runs nearly 11 yards. The route was covered by that time.

Conclusion: JJ takes the snap, but can't throw the ball immediately like Lee did in 2010. Jefferson watches RR, then throws the ball away because Randle Florida had the play covered.
Posted by benhamin5555
Member since Oct 2009
2368 posts
Posted on 10/12/11 at 12:31 am to
quote:

It was a smart decision to throw it away.


Why not run?
Posted by hunt66
Member since Aug 2011
1487 posts
Posted on 10/12/11 at 7:59 am to
quote:

Who would you rather the ball in their hands? Rueben Randle or Jefferson with the game on the line?


Rueben Randle definately.......after catching a pass thrown by either JJ or JL - I do not care as long as he scores and we win!

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