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Started By
Message
re: T-Bob on Mascona dropping some knowledge RE: 2011 champ game
Posted on 1/9/14 at 11:25 am to JBeam
Posted on 1/9/14 at 11:25 am to JBeam
quote:
1. USC not playing LSU back in the Sugar Bowl 2. Auburn being left out 3. UA magically being let back into the title conversation immediately after LSU beat them in Ttown.
This is wrong and here is why.
As others have pointed out, the "system in place BEFORE THE SEASON" was what resulted in Oklahoma getting in over USC. While it may have been flawed, it was the "rule" that everyone agreed to prior to the start of play that season.
If anything, LSU is more of a victim in this because the championship they legitimately won within the rules in place was tainted.
Similarly the Auburn situation was another "flaw" in the system which was caused by a pattern of human behavior where the majority of pollsters movement in team rankings is based on teams losing instead of actually evaluating each team. The voters determine OU and USC were the beat two teams before the season, and did not reevaluate that. Again though a flaw in the system.
In the case of Alabama however, there was an intentional decision made by human beings to invalidate an on the field game result. Alabama had the best set of circumstances it could have to prove that it was "better" than LSU (playing at home). LSU proved it was better that night.
The pollsters again, working outside of the system, created a situation that was greatly advantageous to Alabama and a major disadvantage to LSU.
The extra game. The having to beat Bama twice, where as Bama only had to split.
Voters changed the pattern of voting that worked against Auburn in that one circumstance (look no further than Ohio state this year)
Alabama was not deserving of a second bite at the apple. Oklahoma State earned their shot. LSU got screwed
3
Posted on 1/9/14 at 11:32 am to Giantkiller
quote:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. LSU football died a little that night. And it was exactly for that reason. Slive and the SEC machine sucked the life out of LSU by lobbying so hard to get Bama back in it. It's the most unfair thing that ever happened in the BCS era. Good riddance.
OK, you're an idiot. Why wouldn't "Slive and the SEC machine" lobby so hard to get Bama back in?
And for T-Bob to complain about the extra week off that Bama had...WHAT? LSU had something like 5 weeks off to prepare. Is that not enough?
Can anyone honestly say that LSU and Bama were not the two best teams that year? They played and LSU lost. Get over it. Rematches in title games happen all the time. Ask the Patriots how they liked the rematch with the Giants in the 2008 SB. I doubt very many Patriot fans are still whining about having to play the Giants again. Or the NFL "screwed" them.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 11:37 am to lsusa
quote:
Oklahoma State earned their shot.
So how exactly did OK State earn their shot when they lost to a 6-7 Iowa State team?
Posted on 1/9/14 at 2:28 pm to lsu2006
quote:
I'd say USC being left out in '03 was maybe worse. Both were atrocities.
That was based on a preset formula that gave great weight to strength of schedule. A greater atrocity was the subsequent tweaking of that formula to protect the media darlings. That tweaking led directly to Auburn being left out and Bama being let in, respectively.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 3:11 pm to LoyalTiger
LSU backdoors into the national title game in 2007 thanks to a bunch of teams losing, that's fine.
Alabama backdoors into the national title game in 2011 and all the sudden it's a crime against humanity.
Alabama was squarely on the outside looking in after the loss to LSU. If not for a crazy Iowa State upset over Oklahoma State, they sit at home.
Kind of like it took a crazy Pitt upset over West Virginia to send LSU in 2007.
This whole "but but they didn't win their conference" thing is sour grapes. No where in any of the BCS rules or guidelines does it say anything about winning your conference.
It takes some very strange bounces to get a non-conference champ into the BCS title game and guess what? Those bounces happened.
Just like it took some really strange bounces to get a 2 loss LSU team into the title game in 07.
shite happens, deal with it.
Alabama backdoors into the national title game in 2011 and all the sudden it's a crime against humanity.
Alabama was squarely on the outside looking in after the loss to LSU. If not for a crazy Iowa State upset over Oklahoma State, they sit at home.
Kind of like it took a crazy Pitt upset over West Virginia to send LSU in 2007.
This whole "but but they didn't win their conference" thing is sour grapes. No where in any of the BCS rules or guidelines does it say anything about winning your conference.
It takes some very strange bounces to get a non-conference champ into the BCS title game and guess what? Those bounces happened.
Just like it took some really strange bounces to get a 2 loss LSU team into the title game in 07.
shite happens, deal with it.
This post was edited on 1/9/14 at 3:12 pm
Posted on 1/9/14 at 3:21 pm to lsusa
quote:
Alabama was not deserving of a second bite at the apple. Oklahoma State earned their shot. LSU got screwed
I don't agree with any of the three statements above. The job of the BCS is to pit the two best teams against each other for the championship. There is NO WAY that Ok State was better than either Bama or LSU that year. Bama was, unfortunate as it may be to some, the best team in the country that year. The only way LSU got "screwed" is by screwing themselves and not showing up with anything new in terms of a game plan.
That 2011 LSU team is likely, IMO, one of the 5-8 most talented and best teams of the BCS era. Despite the Bama loss to LSU, I think that 2011 Bama team was one of the top 3 teams of the BCS era. Either of those teams would have won in 2012 and 2013 over the other teams there.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 8:22 pm to Captain Ron
quote:
Oklahoma getting housed by several TDs in the B12CG should have knocked them out immediately.
The Big 12 Championship Game ended in 2010.
From 2011 forward, Big 12 teams have received an extra bye week and play a round robin, 9 game schedule. The Bedlam rivalry takes place during Championship Game weekend, which is unfair; it is a move that has its political advantages.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 8:30 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
1a UA magically being let back into the title conversation immediately after LSU beat them in Ttown.
You can criticize Alabama's schedule all day, but teams normally drop in the BCS standings after losing a game.
Alabama lost and dropped to #3.
In the following weeks, Oklahoma State, Stanford, Boise State, Oklahoma, Oregon, and Arkansas would all lose. The latter 5 ended up having 2 or more regular season losses or not having the opportunity to make up for their loss. Oklahoma State was the only team with an argument; they blew a 17 point lead versus a 6-loss Iowa State and didn't look great against Stanford. They did not have a championship caliber defense, though there's no telling how hard they would have played, i.e. they could pulled off a performance like Auburn vs FSU this year.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 8:38 pm to MetryTyger
quote:
It also didn't hurt the Skoal Juice Chin MulliGumpNecks that:
* A faction of BCS Human Poll Voters and Coaches voted Oklahoma State FIFTH OR SIXTH, when every other voter had them second or third (except Satan - who had them fourth.) If they had not voted blatantly biased against OSU - they would have been in the Superdome on 1/9 not shama.
* Oklahoma State was led to believe, with it's SOS, that it would jump Alabama to #2 if they routed Oklahoma to win the Big 12.
* They did just that, by four touchdowns, over the former #1 Sooners. Okie State's SOS put bama's to shame. But they were lied to.
* SOS and Conference champions were """"supposed""" to be strong factors in calculating BCS points in the rankings. Evidently not in December of 2011.
* Saban was allowed to lobby for his team on national TV during the SECCG. Why was Gundy not afforded the same chance ???
I guaran-damn-tee you - if LSU had lost on 11/5/11 we would NOT have been given a do-over.
Bama was given a do-over just because of their name, and the media wanted to see a re-match. No other reason.
My question - why even play the SECCG that year
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
And why wasn't Michigan given a mulligan do-over against Ohio State in the Jan. 2007 BCSNCG ??????
This was the first time in history that the media decided who would play in the BCSNCG, NOT the computers.
And it ruined the best regular season in CFB history. What a damn shame.
I know the mentalities that many teams have after narrowly losing their shot at a national championship, but why don't they try to make a point in their bowl games that they truly were as good as advertised? 2006 Michigan and Ohio State lost by multiple touchdowns in their bowl game. Ohio State actually made it to the national championship, so what's their excuse for their 14-41 loss? 2011 Oklahoma State didn't look like the #1 or #2 team in the nation in the Fiesta Bowl. In fact, they looked like they were on Stanford's level. 2004 Auburn did not demolish Virginia Tech in their bowl game.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 8:42 pm to harry coleman beast
quote:
Its amazing LSU fans are still crying about this
It's not. Alabama did not earn their rematch on the field; they needed help just like anyone else that didn't go undefeated. The outrage is over the fact that Alabama was awarded a rematch of a late season game and lost their toughest game of the season. The LSU fans in favor of Oklahoma State are essentially stating that they wanted an easier challenge in the national championship game to cap a beautiful season.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 8:49 pm to tiger81
quote:
Tennessee was probably upset in 2001, they beat us during regualar season and we beat them in SEC Championship game...you gotta play who's in front of you, no excuses.
I think the main difference is that LSU wasn't voted into the rematch; they earned their trip under a system that had been set about a decade ago. See the 1996 season for a better example. Florida State took care of Florida in the regular season and got destroyed in the rematch.
Furthermore, for all the talk regarding psychology, and the disadvantages of being the team that won the first game, please look at the 1999, 2003, and 2010 SEC Championship games. The team that narrowly won the first matchup blew out the same opponent in the rematch, so let's not act like the odds of winning a rematch are that awful. The better team managed to win the 2003 and 2010 rematches easily. One of 2011 LSU's problems is that they didn't really improve as a team after the Alabama game. The quarterback position was still being veiled by the dominant running game, defense, and special teams.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 8:54 pm to TG
quote:
If any team had a right for a rematch, it should have been Georgia. They won the SEC East and lost a close game in the championship.
Georgia was a 3-loss team after the SEC championship and hadn't beaten a single good team.
You might want to revisit the end of the regular season W/L records and standings that season.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 8:56 pm to Big EZ Tiger
quote:
It sucked hard that LSU had to win an SEC Championship (with a backup QB) to face a team they had beaten on the road already (who was resting while LSU was playing in a conference championship).
Why do people mention this?
Did one extra meek make a big difference in the outcome? No.
Furthermore, did Alabama know they were getting a rematch before the games were played that final weekend?
Posted on 1/9/14 at 9:00 pm to The Cow Goes Moo Moo
quote:
The fact that we were utterly embarrassed on 1/9 to a team that supposedly didn't deserve to be there is the travesty.
2012 Notre Dame didn't even play in a conference and didn't beat anybody, but the current system put them in the game due to their record. LSU versus Oklahoma State would have been a joke. The game may have been competitive, but I see LSU as a much more impressive and better team. Oklahoma State displayed nothing that suggested they were better than 2011 Alabama. People won't always agree on whose the best team in the country at season's end, but I'm convinced that Oklahoma State wasn't one of the best two teams in the country and 2011 and was ranked appropriately.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 9:05 pm to lsusa
quote:
In the case of Alabama however, there was an intentional decision made by human beings to invalidate an on the field game result. Alabama had the best set of circumstances it could have to prove that it was "better" than LSU (playing at home). LSU proved it was better that night.
First off, please stop mentioning that it was a home game. Not all teams perform better at home than on the road; see Texas A&M and Alabama. Furthermore, what does being better one time or one night really mean? Was 2011 Iowa State better than Oklahoma State? Was 2013 West Virginia better than Oklahoma State? Was 2013 Ole Miss better than LSU? Please don't act like winning one close match proves that your team is better.
Posted on 1/9/14 at 9:08 pm to LoyalTiger
quote:
So how exactly did OK State earn their shot when they lost to a 6-7 Iowa State team?
Upvoted.
IAmReality:
quote:
LSU backdoors into the national title game in 2007 thanks to a bunch of teams losing, that's fine.
Alabama backdoors into the national title game in 2011 and all the sudden it's a crime against humanity.
Alabama was squarely on the outside looking in after the loss to LSU. If not for a crazy Iowa State upset over Oklahoma State, they sit at home.
Kind of like it took a crazy Pitt upset over West Virginia to send LSU in 2007.
This whole "but but they didn't win their conference" thing is sour grapes. No where in any of the BCS rules or guidelines does it say anything about winning your conference.
It takes some very strange bounces to get a non-conference champ into the BCS title game and guess what? Those bounces happened.
Just like it took some really strange bounces to get a 2 loss LSU team into the title game in 07.
shite happens, deal with it.
Upvoted.
Meno's Paradox
quote:
I don't agree with any of the three statements above. The job of the BCS is to pit the two best teams against each other for the championship. There is NO WAY that Ok State was better than either Bama or LSU that year. Bama was, unfortunate as it may be to some, the best team in the country that year. The only way LSU got "screwed" is by screwing themselves and not showing up with anything new in terms of a game plan.
That 2011 LSU team is likely, IMO, one of the 5-8 most talented and best teams of the BCS era. Despite the Bama loss to LSU, I think that 2011 Bama team was one of the top 3 teams of the BCS era. Either of those teams would have won in 2012 and 2013 over the other teams there.
Upvoted.
Posted on 1/10/14 at 1:11 am to Gardevoir
And some teams have more luck than others...as in
a one loss Bama getting into the NC game last year because an undefeated Ohio State team was on probation. Another one of those 'shite happens bounces'.
Before the Sugar Bowl, Saban and McCarron said the best team doesn't always play in the the National Championship game...Guess they were hoping for more 'strange bounces' so they could claim the best team wasn't in the 'big dance' this year.
Thankfully, the do-over given to Bama by a dysfunctional BCS format expedited the creation
of a college football playoff. The powers that be obviously didn't want to see that scenario again.
a one loss Bama getting into the NC game last year because an undefeated Ohio State team was on probation. Another one of those 'shite happens bounces'.
Before the Sugar Bowl, Saban and McCarron said the best team doesn't always play in the the National Championship game...Guess they were hoping for more 'strange bounces' so they could claim the best team wasn't in the 'big dance' this year.
Thankfully, the do-over given to Bama by a dysfunctional BCS format expedited the creation
of a college football playoff. The powers that be obviously didn't want to see that scenario again.
Posted on 1/10/14 at 6:56 am to Gardevoir
quote:
* Saban was allowed to lobby for his team on national TV during the SECCG. Why was Gundy not afforded the same chance ???
Gundy wasn't denied the chance. He didn't want in the game, he let his personal issues with Miles overcome his duty to his players. In other words, Mike Gundy is not, in fact, a man, he is a seeping, infected vagina.
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