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Message
re: Roy King Fired
Posted on 4/20/16 at 9:57 am to TheDrunkenTigah
Posted on 4/20/16 at 9:57 am to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
King couldn't just slash the guy's budget if that's what he wanted.
Because it's not F King's money.
TAF donates that money to Tiger Band. That's a private donation. He can't control how much someone gives TB to put in their own personal budget. It's earmarked for the TB only.
Otherwise TAF would just make the check out to the SoM. But they don't.
But once it gets to Tiger Band, F King/SoM says "it's ours once it gets to a department within the school"
0
Posted on 4/20/16 at 9:58 am to Red Stick Tigress
quote:
I suggest you read the article that is linked in OP.
I've read the article in the OP, it makes no mention of the stipend money, besides F King claiming it has nothing to do with it and this is a "personal matter".
Besides the nepotism, which is a joke, there has been no mention of what the personal matter is. Likewise, R King's supporters have been equally vague on what actually constituted this "money grab".
As an LSU alumni who just doesn't like the university appearing to be one big slap fight right now, this is confusing as shite.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 10:02 am to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
This is what I don't get. Why would the university not dictate the budget allocation? Why would F King need to fire the band director just to get a piece of 300K shifted from one department to the other?
What I wrote is what I inferred from reading the article. Tiger Band gets their money from the Athletic Department which is self-sufficient. The Athletic Department gives each band member, Golden Girl, flag team a $600 - $700 (again, not sure of exact $ amount) stipend per person per year of participation in TGBFTL.
The university doesn't control the Athletic Department's finances. The Athletic Department donates money to LSU, recent amount was in the neighborhood of $10M. So why should the university/School of Music control the $ that is allocated to Tiger Band?
This post was edited on 4/20/16 at 10:04 am
Posted on 4/20/16 at 10:10 am to ProjectP2294
quote:
Because it comes from booster money given to the athletic department.
That still seems like a stretch that F King couldn't get his hands on it in some other way. Once TAF writes that check it's in LSU's, more specifically Joe Alleva's, hands and he obviously answers to F King.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 10:11 am to TheDrunkenTigah
If we didn't have mizzou being such a dumpster fire and the rape gate at Tennessee then LSU would be getting completely shite on for how it has been run since early nov.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 10:15 am to LuckyTiger
I agree with you on that .
Posted on 4/20/16 at 10:15 am to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
That still seems like a stretch that F King couldn't get his hands on it in some other way. Once TAF writes that check it's in LSU's, more specifically Joe Alleva's, hands and he obviously answers to F King.
I'm sure there are safeguards in place to ensure the donors that the money is going to the place they want the money to go to. So that the donor money doesn't dry up.
Nothing will stop donations quicker than using money for something the donor didn't want. Except maybe a campus being held hostage by a student on a fake hunger strike.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 10:24 am to Red Stick Tigress
quote:
What I wrote is what I inferred from reading the article. Tiger Band gets their money from the Athletic Department which is self-sufficient. The Athletic Department gives each band member, Golden Girl, flag team a $600 - $700 (again, not sure of exact $ amount) stipend per person per year of participation in TGBFTL.
The university doesn't control the Athletic Department's finances. The Athletic Department donates money to LSU, recent amount was in the neighborhood of $10M. So why should the university/School of Music control the $ that is allocated to Tiger Band?
The only thing any LSU admin has said about this is that it does not have to do with scholarships...which may or may not be the real thing anyway, since that would probably be the biggest problem the SoM has with TB. TB is in a weird position between the AD - being funded by them - and the SoM - being a music ensemble that factors in to scholarships, as well as literally being a class, MUS 4250.
Any other arguments that are "strictly" HR (nepotism, theft, etc.) would be plain ridiculous IMO.
ETA: Still, nobody really knows. There's been a ton of chatter in the TB alumni groups on Facebook and just no real facts yet.
This post was edited on 4/20/16 at 10:26 am
Posted on 4/20/16 at 10:25 am to Red Stick Tigress
quote:
The university doesn't control the Athletic Department's finances. The Athletic Department donates money to LSU, recent amount was in the neighborhood of $10M. So why should the university/School of Music control the $ that is allocated to Tiger Band?
The univerity absolutely does control the athletic department's finances, they just haven't had a reason to in years. F King is Joe Alleva's boss. See the chart below.
The athletic department is self-sufficient but not autonomous, and those are two very different things. You may be confusing the athletic department with TAF, which is a private entity. It's a very rare instance for an athletic department to be in the black, at 99% of other schools it is managed as any other department. The university receives donations from private "boosters" for academic departments too, and unless the booster declares they're not donating unless it's used for such and such purpose, then the university is free to allocate the funds how they wish.
Again, my confusion is why F King would need to jump through so many hoops and publicly fire an employee just to secure a relatively small amount of money.
This post was edited on 4/20/16 at 10:31 am
Posted on 4/20/16 at 10:29 am to TheDrunkenTigah
Posted on 4/20/16 at 10:30 am to TheDrunkenTigah
The reason for the hoop jumping is the money being ear marked for a certain purpose. If people are making donations with strings attached F King can't mess with it. Same reason F. King can't take the money that students put aside for the rec renovation, and use it for other projects.
I suspect donations to LSU are going to drop even more as F. King and Joe continue to run the school into the ground.
I suspect donations to LSU are going to drop even more as F. King and Joe continue to run the school into the ground.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 10:32 am to heartbreakTiger
quote:
The reason for the hoop jumping is the money being ear marked for a certain purpose. If people are making donations with strings attached F King can't mess with it. Same reason F. King can't take the money that students put aside for the rec renovation, and use it for other projects.
I suspect donations to LSU are going to drop even more as F. King and Joe continue to run the school into the ground.
If this is the case then Roy King can't just wave a wand and give it to the school of music...
I'm really trying here guys, I think the LSU admin is a joke, but the more I hear about this the more my bullshite meter goes off.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 10:34 am to Red Stick Tigress
Posted on 4/20/16 at 10:42 am to FearTheFish
quote:
y'all just wait to see how far the band degrades with Roy being gone.
stfu you noob. Band will be better without Roy, period.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 10:46 am to tigerswin03
Asinine comment:
First, insofar as collegiate marching bands go, Tiger Band consistently ranks in the top ten. One of the reasons for this is LSU Tiger Band offers stipends to each of its members, and those stipends increase based on length of tenure with the Band. Also, they strongly encourage (compel?) music majors in trad band instruments to take Tiger Band. The large majority of collegiate bands do not, and therefore don't have nearly the talent base that Tiger Band has.
Next, Southern, being a traditionally-black college, has a jive style of marching (ditto for St. Aug), contrasted sharply with the traditional military-style and more modern Corps-style of marching found in the large majority of universities across the nation. In order for LSU Tiger Band to adopt that style, it would currently have to recruit from high school bands that use that style (like for instance, St. Aug), of which there are extremely few.
Louisiana is known for its high quality High School marching bands, 95% of which are corps-style or military-style. If it were to copy Southern, then the band members from those high schools would find LSU Tiger Band to be inhospitable to them, and go elsewhere for college, or give up band altogether.
quote:
Good fire .... I would also put the band on probation for their sub par performance these past few years ...
I'm not saying they all the way sucked but southern or st Augustine could do just as well ...
First, insofar as collegiate marching bands go, Tiger Band consistently ranks in the top ten. One of the reasons for this is LSU Tiger Band offers stipends to each of its members, and those stipends increase based on length of tenure with the Band. Also, they strongly encourage (compel?) music majors in trad band instruments to take Tiger Band. The large majority of collegiate bands do not, and therefore don't have nearly the talent base that Tiger Band has.
Next, Southern, being a traditionally-black college, has a jive style of marching (ditto for St. Aug), contrasted sharply with the traditional military-style and more modern Corps-style of marching found in the large majority of universities across the nation. In order for LSU Tiger Band to adopt that style, it would currently have to recruit from high school bands that use that style (like for instance, St. Aug), of which there are extremely few.
Louisiana is known for its high quality High School marching bands, 95% of which are corps-style or military-style. If it were to copy Southern, then the band members from those high schools would find LSU Tiger Band to be inhospitable to them, and go elsewhere for college, or give up band altogether.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 10:50 am to therick711
quote:
He been witch hunt since day one
Posted on 4/20/16 at 10:57 am to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
Let's just say that Roy King holds $300K a year of money that was given to him by LSU Athletic Department for band stipend (don't know where and I don't know if this is an accurate amount.) School of Music wants that money. Roy said no. Roy gets put on paid leave. Roy gets attorney. Roy gets fired via U.S. Mail.
This is what I don't get. Why would the university not dictate the budget allocation? Why would F King need to fire the band director just to get a piece of 300K shifted from one department to the other?
I've heard this is a money grab by F King and the school of music, but when I ask how, it just turns into rabble. Dozens of posts in this thread about "the facts coming out" and money this that, but no one can tell me why F King couldn't just slash the guy's budget if that's what he wanted.
I have heard this from a trusted source who has first hand knowledge.
Roy not only controlled the stipend money that every member of Tiger Band received, he also controlled the full scholarships that the Band used to recruit top high school musicians who were interested in playing in Tiger Band. These scholarships also include requirements for those musicians to participate in other wind ensembles within the SOM (Wind Ensemble, Symphonic Winds, or Symphonic Band).
Now, all of those ensembles were under the control of Frank Wickes, since he was Director of Bands. So, he routinely used the scholarships to bring in the top talent that built the LSU Wind Ensemble into one of the best in the country. However, when Wickes retired, the SOM restructured the Tiger Band job away from being the Director of Bands. This change is related to why Moorhouse left; she was not being given the same scope of responsibilities that Wickes was given.
When Roy took the Tiger Band jobs, he still had control of the scholarships, but someone else was the director of the Wind Ensemble. In certain cases, Roy threatened to take away scholarships from musicians who won a seat in Wind Ensemble or Symphonic Winds who then decided to not participate in Symphonic Band, the concert ensemble Roy directed. In other words, more money was available to provide scholarships to the third band than was available to the top band. That's an untenable situation, even though nothing was illegal in the situation.
I suspect that the whole thing has been brewing for years and that a particular incident brought it to a confrontation. Roy was told to stop the above policy or resign. He would do neither. The administrative leave was likely merely a formality to satisfy some university protocol for dismissing a faculty member who was not being accused of a crime. Either way, LSU has an obligation to not disclose any of this information to the public due to privacy laws. We aren't going to find out anything more unless it comes out in open court, something I expect will never happen.
Sad that it has come to this. I hope that we can move on in the next few years and that Tiger Band can remain a wonderful representative of the university.
Peace.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 10:59 am to TheDrunkenTigah
I smell a lawsuit.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 11:10 am to Thorny
quote:
When Roy took the Tiger Band jobs, he still had control of the scholarships, but someone else was the director of the Wind Ensemble. In certain cases, Roy threatened to take away scholarships from musicians who won a seat in Wind Ensemble or Symphonic Winds who then decided to not participate in Symphonic Band, the concert ensemble Roy directed. In other words, more money was available to provide scholarships to the third band than was available to the top band.
This has been going on for over a decade with Roy. He would blackmail students to be in his symphonic band. Personally, for me, it was be in symphonic band or expect to not make Tiger Band.
People are making this about the stipends when that's not in question right now. It's not a scholarship and they are getting paid for a service done. The SOM has a problem with giving a music scholarships to color guard and Golden Girls.
Posted on 4/20/16 at 11:11 am to Thorny
quote:
When Roy took the Tiger Band jobs, he still had control of the scholarships, but someone else was the director of the Wind Ensemble. In certain cases, Roy threatened to take away scholarships from musicians who won a seat in Wind Ensemble or Symphonic Winds who then decided to not participate in Symphonic Band, the concert ensemble Roy directed. In other words, more money was available to provide scholarships to the third band than was available to the top band. That's an untenable situation, even though nothing was illegal in the situation.
I suspect that the whole thing has been brewing for years and that a particular incident brought it to a confrontation. Roy was told to stop the above policy or resign. He would do neither. The administrative leave was likely merely a formality to satisfy some university protocol for dismissing a faculty member who was not being accused of a crime. Either way, LSU has an obligation to not disclose any of this information to the public due to privacy laws. We aren't going to find out anything more unless it comes out in open court, something I expect will never happen.
Thank you, this is exactly the kind of clarification I was looking for. Seems to be plain old in-fighting and personal rivalries more so than a "money grab", which is a lot more plausible when we're talking pennies relative to a university budget.
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