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Message
re: Reed would make a difference
Posted on 1/17/25 at 9:13 am to mcspufftiger7
Posted on 1/17/25 at 9:13 am to mcspufftiger7
quote:
Just to clarify I never said losing Reed would prevent this team from doing anything .
Perhaps. But often, anytime there has be criticism of McMahon it's met with the excuse "he lost his best player! You don't know anything about basketball!, etc, etc." This, despite the fact Reed only became LSU's "best player" after his injury. It's one thing to say his loss was impactful. It's quite another to suggest his loss completely derailed the season...when ALL prior evidence to the contrarily suggest that is unlikely.
quote:
I believe we beat SMU
Possibly. But the biggest reason they lost that game is the biggest reason they lose most of their games. Turnovers. That's not an issue that suddenly developed after Reed was lost for the year. It's an issue that has been present for all 3 years of McMahon's tenure and there is no reason to think that if Reed played LSU wouldn't have turned the ball over a ton...because they ALWAYS turn the ball over a ton.
LSU had a 6 point lead at the half. In fact, it was one of the better first halves they'd played all season. Not surprisingly, they only had 4 turnovers in the first half. In the second half they got stomped by 16 points. Biggest reason for that? Turnovers. They had 13. Reed wasn't ever immune from turnovers. In fact, he was averaging nearly 2 per game.
quote:
and Vandy with him
Possible, but not certain. But that game was winnable game completely blown by McMahon. That's not being said with the benefit of hindsight. You could see it happening in real time. Well, everyone but McMahon apparently. LSU lost that game because they were dominated on the glass. 37-27 in total rebounds. Worse, 17-5 on offensive rebounds. That allowed a team that shot 44% to beat one that shot 50%. Again, Reed was solid at getting defensive rebounds, so his presence likely would have helped. Maybe even given them the win. But even without Reed LSU should have won that game...or at least made some personnel changes in the second half to give them a chance.
The second half of that game was close from a scoring standpoint 46-45 Vandy. But they were able to grab 11 offensive rebounds and get 13 second chance points to LSU's 4...all while Robert Miller played 19:00, including the final ~12:00. In those 19 minutes he had exactly 1 rebound. ONE! All while Collins sat on the bench for the final 12:00 and Fountain didn't play at all in the second half (after only playing ~1:00 in the first). At every media TO the coaches get a printout of the stats. How can you sit there and see you are losing the game because you are getting blasted on the boards yet think leaving a frontcourt player in who was only able to get 1 rebound in 19:00 was your path to victory? Collins and Fountain may not be All Americans. But I KNOW they can rebound better than Miller.
quote:
This team can still achieve something if chest and Collins can develop quickly. And the freshmen mature during the first half of the season. They can beat TAM. But it will take one of their best games and tone down the TO. This team can play great defense. Need to solve the scoring droughts.
I think the players can get better. I think they are talented enough to compete with A&M. But I have my doubts the guy on the sideline can put the right players in the right spot at the right times to compete.
2
Posted on 1/17/25 at 9:18 am to mcspufftiger7
Would’ve been interesting to see if Reed could’ve done a better job keeping Carey off his spot vs Vandy but when you look at a team like Arkansas Collins obviously gives you more of what you need defensively so does his limited time give Arky the advantage and possibly the win? I think he does give us a better matchup vs Vandy but I don’t believe the SMU game was lost because of his absence. That game was lost because McMahon is awful vs zone and he refused to use the bench at all in that game.
This post was edited on 1/17/25 at 9:21 am
Posted on 1/17/25 at 9:24 am to Alt26
It’s not to downplay Reed because he’s a solid player but I don’t think any loss was a direct result of his absence. We’re losing games the way we always have under MM, bad offense and turnovers. Even without Reed it was obvious we had more talent than Vandy, they just played a lot better than we did.
Posted on 1/17/25 at 9:27 am to Alt26
ATM will try to grind us and make it a possession by possession game. If we want to win we need Sears to be on target and we need offensive rebounds. I’m not even going to suggest we need to limit turnovers or play clean on offense because at this point those things are pie in the sky with MM teams.
Posted on 1/17/25 at 9:42 am to Madking
Vandy big would just back Collins down, put a shoulder into him and shoot a 4 foot shot over him. Would not have done that to Reed, And let me rephrase that. He may not have been the"best" player but he damn sure was the most important player on that team for the multiple reasons I have given. And if they had beaten Vandy and SMU would we even be having this conversation?
Posted on 1/17/25 at 9:51 am to mcspufftiger7
Well like I said Reed playing 28-30 min vs Arky and Collins on the bench a lot probably hurts us so we probably lose that one and with his help vs Vandy that’s your trade off. I don’t think he changes the outcome bs SMU, that game wasn’t lost because of a lack of a better inside player.
Posted on 1/17/25 at 10:01 am to Madking
You are assuming Collins PT hasn't increased and he's not starting with Reed by Ark. Having him AND Reed makes an even bigger difference. It's not an either or situation.
Posted on 1/17/25 at 10:04 am to mcspufftiger7
It’s increased because Reed got hurt and they were never on the floor together prior to the injury. You’re the one assuming something that has zero evidence to support, I’m going off of what actually happened.
Posted on 1/17/25 at 10:17 am to Madking
quote:
ATM will try to grind us and make it a possession by possession game. If we want to win we need Sears to be on target and we need offensive rebounds. I’m not even going to suggest we need to limit turnovers or play clean on offense because at this point those things are pie in the sky with MM teams.
Yep.
They are going to make this a halfcourt, slower pace game knowing LSU can't execute well in the halfcourt without turning the ball over. I think we would all agree that LSU's offense is better when they can play at a faster pace. So how do you increase the tempo? One way is getting defensive rebounds (which LSU generally hasn't been good at doing, but was better vs. Arkansas). The other is to extend your defense at times. I'm not talking about this half-assed token pressure McMahon will throw in once in a blue moon. I'm talking about picking up full court and inviting A&M to play fast. They may get a few easy buckets if they beat your pressure. But the greater goal is to make it an uptempo game, at least at times, to give LSU a shot rather than having them bog down on offense.
That is one of my biggest frustrations with McMahon. He doesn't deviate from his initial plan. LSU hardly ever mixes up their defensive approach. The substitution patterns seem preplanned and don't often take into account the game flow (at least in the first half). Sometimes it's to the point where you were going to take a guy out. But if he's hot, leave him in for a few more minutes. Maybe you want to take a guy like Chest out ahead of the 8:00 timeout. But feel the game. If it is a slugfest with few made baskets and rebounding at a premium, leave him in because the flow of the game is dictating it. We say Williams play extended minutes the other night for the first time all season. He had a solid impact and was key in helping you get a win in the second half. But WHY did it take an injury to VJ Miller for him to get any playing time? Fountain finally played extending minutes ahead of Robert Miller. He blew some layups (which is what Fountain does) But he gave you a lot more than Miller elsewhere. Why is it taking so long to see this? Why does it take an 0-3 start and desperation to make what should be some pretty obvious adjustments?
At this level all of the coaches know "x's and o's". They all know countless set plays. They all know each other's set plays. It's the coaches with the ability to read the game and make the subtle changes on the fly that often win. Mixing up the defense here. A personal change there to create a better matchup based upon how the game is flowing. Accepting the three isn't falling and instead, changing course to try to drive and get to the line.
Posted on 1/17/25 at 11:33 am to Alt26
I can agree with all that. Again I've never said MM is above criticism and I too wanted Williams to get PT after Sears/Givens weren't really giving you what you needed. I saw more of what you are saying in the Ark game. he kept Jai on the bench because Williams was contributing on he floor. Could have been more of him wanting to give Givens and VMiller more experience and we aren't at practice so I don't know what was happening there that might have affected Williams PT. Hopefully MM will learn and grow when it comes to that part of the game. But again none of that changes the fact that with Reed on the floor this is a different team. Hoping Chest and Collins continue to grow at a fast pace. gonna need them scoring more big time moving forward. And PG that doesn't turn the ball over so much.
Posted on 1/17/25 at 12:10 pm to Alt26
MM is 0-3 vs ATM averaging 62ppg in the 3 games with a high of 68pts so the aim needs to be 70-75pts. Like you said if the pace is slow within the first 8-10 minutes he needs to make adjustments to increase the possession rate but so far he hasn’t showed any interest in deviating from his standard, basic approach.
Posted on 1/17/25 at 12:34 pm to mcspufftiger7
quote:
Hopefully MM will learn and grow when it comes to that part of the game.
He's been a head coach for 10 years. It's his third season as a major conf. coach. It's not exactly a deep, esoteric decision to give guys who you've seen contribute in the past (namely Fountain and Williams) more minutes than other players who aren't contributing a ton. At least on a consistent basis. I'm not saying you stop completely playing guys like Givens and R. Miller, but at some point you owe it to the team to play the guys who may be better suited to winning right now. Or, you at least give them some run if things aren't going well with your initial game plan.
quote:
And PG that doesn't turn the ball over so much.
Sears is what, the 4th, 5th, 6th PG McMahon has had at LSU? All have had turnover problems. What's more likely? He's just gotten unlucky with multiple players? Or what he is asking them to do is conducive to turnovers? It's become very clear that you can't play PG in this offense without having a high rate of turnovers. The structure and approach of the offense makes it difficult to execute without turning the ball over.
But if you are seeing constant turnovers in what you are doing...change what you are doing!
Posted on 1/17/25 at 6:54 pm to mcspufftiger7
IMO, CMM is a good coach......his teams play hard, they are just not elite players. They have no consistent scorers, no dominant inside play, and ball handling is a chore......way too many turnovers.
With good players, I beleive his teams will win and be competitive.
With good players, I beleive his teams will win and be competitive.
Posted on 1/18/25 at 8:46 am to oldskule
quote:
IMO, CMM is a good coach......his teams play hard, they are just not elite players. They have no consistent scorers, no dominant inside play, and ball handling is a chore......way too many turnovers. With good players, I beleive his teams will win and be competitive.
So just give him more time? How much longer? 3, 4, 5 more years to be competitive? Make NCAA tournament year 8?
Posted on 1/18/25 at 12:44 pm to Madking
quote:Am I missing something? We beat A&M last year.
MM is 0-3 vs ATM averaging 62ppg in the 3 games with a high of 68pts so the aim needs to be 70-75pts.
Posted on 1/18/25 at 12:50 pm to mmcgrath
You’re correct, we beat them 68-53 last season. Was looking on sports reference going back and forth between ours and ATM pages and got mixed up. My mistake
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