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re: QB debate should center around one thing: Offensive Production
Posted on 3/31/10 at 10:29 am to Hot Carl
Posted on 3/31/10 at 10:29 am to Hot Carl
quote:
RobbBobb seems to think that Lee and Jefferson are the only ones out on the field when they're playing--forget the other 10 guys.
Its pretty obvious that the majority of LSU fans realize that JJ wont get the ball to the other 10 players. So how much help can they be, honestly?
0
Posted on 3/31/10 at 10:41 am to The Easter Bunny
quote:This is all well and good but there is more to having a productive offense than scoring every drive. Moving the ball, flipping the field position and resting the defense can be just as important as scoring in certain game situations. With this in mind, I think the most important stat other than the scoring information is the actual plays per drive. How many of of the non scoring drives by each QB were 3 and outs? I know that last year we seemed to have 3 and outs on a regular basis.
Totals:
Lee -- 70 series, 28 scores, 171 points; 2.44 points per series, scored on 40% of drives
JJ -- 131 series, 47 scores, 252 points; 1.92 points per series, scored on 36% of drives
Then if you don't count the games against Florida and Bama...
JJ - 117 series, 45 scores, 242 points; 2.07 points per series, scored on 38% of drives
Still impressive to see difference, but just wanted to be more fair and not count games against Tulane, LaTech, and ULL
Posted on 3/31/10 at 10:41 am to TIsuGGER
i think the only fair way for these stats to determine a starter is to count the interceptions and fumbles that lead to touchdowns, take that number and subtract it from their total touchdowns. then use those percentages
Posted on 3/31/10 at 11:28 am to RBWilliams8
quote:
QB debate should center around one thing: Offensive Production
your analysis claims to center around offensive production, but fails to factor the difference in rushing statistics from 2008 and 2009.
Everyone is talking about the run game for a reason.
quote:
If Lee had the help that JJ had, we would have had a much record in 2009.
more like if JJ had the run game in 2009 that we had in 2008, quit acting like lee did by himself in 2008, our run game was far better that year, and the falloff of run game in 2009 cant be blamed on JJ alone, to do so is ridiculous...
This post was edited on 3/31/10 at 11:48 am
Posted on 3/31/10 at 12:04 pm to P bean
quote:
more like if JJ had the run game in 2009 that we had in 2008, quit acting like lee did by himself in 2008, our run game was far better that year, and the falloff of run game in 2009 cant be blamed on JJ alone, to do so is ridiculous...
Statistically speaking his run game was fine. Subtract his obscene amount of sack yardage and it looks acceptable. All of our running backs averaged over 4.5 ypc. You're obviously right in saying that JJ had the worse run game even if it isn't by much.. but Lee had no defense behind him, Jefferson had a top-10 defense backing him up.
I just want an honest QB competition and may the best performer win it. If Lee wins and he sucks in the first two games yank his arse and put Jefferson in. If Jefferson wins and he sucks early on yank his arse and put Lee in.
This post was edited on 3/31/10 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 3/31/10 at 12:12 pm to Rohan2Reed
quote:
can we get a stat on how many of their INTs and fumbles have led to points for the opponent?
WE all know the answer to that, but as long as they are going with who scores the MOST points wins the game....we gotta score points. Or do you disagree with that as well?
I took away 42 points off JL total and he still is a hell of alot better at putting points on the board than JJ. And that is leaving ALL of Jefferson points on his total as if he never made a mistake.
I have been a pro JJ guy, but we have got to start moving the ball and putting up points. Surely for nothing more than to give the D some time to make adjustments and rest up a bit.
Posted on 3/31/10 at 12:23 pm to lsutiger2486
quote:
lsutiger2486
quote:
You morons keep telling yourself that yall know more about football and this specific situation than they do.
hey bud, we also knew you couldnt spike the ball with one second on the clock but dipshit didnt...just because he makes 4 mill a year doesnt mean he knows more then everyone....it means some dumbass gave him a stupid contract...It doesnt mean he's worth it...Im tired of people saying well, he's the coach he knows more then us....bullshite...he's made plenty of mistakes...sometimes you have to question authority...it aint always right bro....
Posted on 3/31/10 at 12:24 pm to XbengalTiger
quote:
This is all well and good but there is more to having a productive offense than scoring every drive. Moving the ball, flipping the field position and resting the defense can be just as important as scoring in certain game situations. With this in mind, I think the most important stat other than the scoring information is the actual plays per drive. How many of of the non scoring drives by each QB were 3 and outs? I know that last year we seemed to have 3 and outs on a regular basis.
good call...i do think that scoring is a little more important obviously but I def agree with your point...
Posted on 3/31/10 at 12:26 pm to moneyg
quote:
Lee may indeed be the better QB. But, your analysis is very simplistic and frankly is useless.
As is your statement that the '08 line was 10 times better. Significantly better with Herman and Helms but not exponentially. The bigger problem effecting the stats of Scott and others in '09 was the ineptitude of QB play coupled with indecision of play-calling based on same. In short, the total number of plays called and run was drastically effected by the above. A few more running plays per game would have had Scott close to his '08 numbers, especially had he played the final 3 games and a quarter.
Posted on 3/31/10 at 1:49 pm to bmy
quote:
Subtract his obscene amount of sack yardage and it looks acceptable.
sorry, but this is not true, a qb's rushing statistics includes yardage lost by sacks people. jj ran for a total of 171 yard in 2009, this statistic includes his yardage lost by sacks. In 2008, J lee had negative 96 yards rushing. morons
The tackling of a player behind the line of scrimmage results in a loss from that player's rushing statistics, even if it was fairly obvious a pass play was intended. NCAA college football continues to subtract sack yardage from individual rushing totals.
This post was edited on 3/31/10 at 1:58 pm
Posted on 3/31/10 at 2:03 pm to TIsuGGER
quote:
I'm starting to sense that this is becoming the mindset of most realistic fans. If Lee had the help that JJ had, we would have had a much record in 2009.
Lee is what killed us in 2008, not the rest of the team. This is so fricking retarded. When a guy gives away 49 frickin points in less than one season, he does not deserve to step foot on the football field
Posted on 3/31/10 at 2:10 pm to SCLSUMuddogs
Again, it must be noted that in 2009 defenses stacked the box because they had zero fear of Jefferson's ability to throw, especially deep, which means they key on the run, which in effect reduces the run yardage when comparing 2008 to 2009.
Posted on 3/31/10 at 2:53 pm to givemeabeer
Jj rushed for 171 in 2009 and jlee had negative 96 in 2008... This statistic includes yardage lost from sacks.... Tell me again how jj screw up the run game in 2009? By allowing them to stat the line, gtfo arses...
The passing game was not far behind 2008, while the rushing game was, its obvious where the difference came so stfu...
The passing game was not far behind 2008, while the rushing game was, its obvious where the difference came so stfu...
This post was edited on 3/31/10 at 3:02 pm
Posted on 3/31/10 at 2:57 pm to P bean
quote:what hurt the running game in 2009 more than anything was, JJ's 112 attempts for 171 yards for a 1.5 ypc average.
Jj rushed for 171 in 2009 and jlee had negative 96... This statistic includes yardage lost from sacks.... Tell me again how jj screw up the run game in 2009? By allowing them to stat the line, gtfo arses...
Stats
he had a total 4 carries less than charles scott who led the team.
Posted on 3/31/10 at 3:07 pm to TruLsu
So what about the rbs in 2008 contributing 2,200 yards rushing not including jlee's sacks. Subtract jj's 171 yards and rbs rushed for 1400 somethin in 2009...
Get over it shitty run game was the difference...
Get over it shitty run game was the difference...
Posted on 3/31/10 at 3:11 pm to P bean
we ran the ball 495 times in 2008 and 435 times in 2009 subtract JJ's rushing numbers from 2009 and we have 323 carries for 1425 yards = 4.41 ypc which is dramatically better than the 3.7 the team averaged...... not saying the oline was not better in 2008 because it was, but if you take out JJ's rushes from 2009, you have the exact same ypc both years 4.4
Posted on 3/31/10 at 3:13 pm to TruLsu
quote:
we ran the ball 495 times in 2008 and 435 times in 2009 subtract JJ's rushing numbers from 2009 and we have 323 carries for 1425 yards = 4.41 ypc which is dramatically better than the 3.7 the team averaged...... not saying the oline was not better in 2008 because it was, but if you take out JJ's rushes from 2009, you have the exact same ypc both years 4.4
He still won't understand.
Posted on 3/31/10 at 3:16 pm to bmy
quote:
He still won't understand.
i figured i could possibly give it a shot, some people dont realize a qb who doesnt pull the trigger and scrambles around taking sacks and get tackled for 1 yard gains doesnt benefit the offense.Posted on 3/31/10 at 3:20 pm to XbengalTiger
quote:
With this in mind, I think the most important stat other than the scoring information is the actual plays per drive.
While I dont have the time right now to do the research, I'm not sure I totally agree. If JLee leads a TD drive in :40 seconds against BCS champ Fla, yet JJ takes 7 snaps and doesnt cross midfield against them, I dont see how that would tell you JLee with less plays did better.
However, I think this stat is along your line of thought in regards to flipping the field, resting the defense, involving more of your weapons
2008 - TIME OF POSSESSION/Game 30:13 (LSU) 29:47 (opp)
2009 - TIME OF POSSESSION/Game 27:50 (LSU) 32:09 (opp)
2008 - RED-ZONE SCORES 43-47 91%
2009 - RED-ZONE SCORES 35-40 88%
2008 - RED-ZONE TOUCHDOWNS 35-47 74%
2009 - RED-ZONE TOUCHDOWNS 24-40 60%
2008 - Total Plays 886; Yards Per Game 368.1
2009 - Total Plays 771; Yards Per Game 304.5
Posted on 3/31/10 at 3:20 pm to P bean
quote:
P bean
you got owned
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