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Orgeron's X's and O's
Posted on 11/29/16 at 12:13 am
Posted on 11/29/16 at 12:13 am
Many complain that Orgeron does not come from a coaching pedigree. Many say he does not have an offensive skill set or defensive skill set. Which is true, he can't coach up an offense, and besides DL, I probably would not choose him coaching up the entire defense.
However, I do not believe that truly matters in today's game. Les Miles was considered an offensive-minded coach. His offensive play calls were terrible. Whether it was actually Cameron or him calling, it doesn't matter. He was an offensive coach that didn't have a good offensive philosophy.
Look at it this way:
Les = Offensive mind and calls plays.
Dave Aranda calls defense alone. He's a genius that can do that.
Now let's say O is considered a defensive mind. If he was calling the defensive plays then the OC has free reign to do whatever he wants. An OC would run the offense himself in this situation. Surely a defensive-minded coach doesn't meddle with the offense really. Currently at LSU though, we have a DC that is perfectly capable of running the defense himself with no help.
Many are saying O does not have the X's and O's to run a team. If Arranda wasn't here, I would understand the cancern. But having an OC with complete reign is what would still happen if LSU had hired a defensive-minded coach that doesn't meddle with the offense.
Let's go Oeaux! Get to motivating and recruiting the stars. Let's bring in Briles, Sark, or Kiffin and get this show on the road.
However, I do not believe that truly matters in today's game. Les Miles was considered an offensive-minded coach. His offensive play calls were terrible. Whether it was actually Cameron or him calling, it doesn't matter. He was an offensive coach that didn't have a good offensive philosophy.
Look at it this way:
Les = Offensive mind and calls plays.
Dave Aranda calls defense alone. He's a genius that can do that.
Now let's say O is considered a defensive mind. If he was calling the defensive plays then the OC has free reign to do whatever he wants. An OC would run the offense himself in this situation. Surely a defensive-minded coach doesn't meddle with the offense really. Currently at LSU though, we have a DC that is perfectly capable of running the defense himself with no help.
Many are saying O does not have the X's and O's to run a team. If Arranda wasn't here, I would understand the cancern. But having an OC with complete reign is what would still happen if LSU had hired a defensive-minded coach that doesn't meddle with the offense.
Let's go Oeaux! Get to motivating and recruiting the stars. Let's bring in Briles, Sark, or Kiffin and get this show on the road.
This post was edited on 11/29/16 at 12:16 am
7
Posted on 11/29/16 at 12:18 am to LSUTigerFan1996
Right now I'm all in on the OC hire. If O screws that up then welcome to the 80's and 90's of LSU football.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 12:21 am to LSUTigerFan1996
quote:It matters a lot. Having a HC who can't help to make in game adjustments with EITHER side of the ball is just ridiculous. If the coordinators game plan isn't quite going as planned I'd like to have a HC who has a clue of how to help make an adjustment. An offensive HC with an OC>>>>>>what we just got. Especially when you've got Aranda on the defensive side of the ball. Everything he's gonna do could've been done as the Recruiting Coordinator and D-Line Coach and then on top of that we could've had a real HC plus a OC.
I do not believe that truly matters in today's game.
This post was edited on 11/29/16 at 12:27 am
Posted on 11/29/16 at 12:24 am to LSUTigerFan1996
I would say that it could very well benefit us and make the coaching staff come together as a team along with the players also to help their head coach. It makes them come together and coach O will demand it I believe.
The argument is if and when we lose the so called genius on O and D then what, or if we are in a tight situation who makes that call for the overall team. He will probably lean on someone in the offseason for advice at least I would hope he does. I also trust that he will have plans in place a replacement for O and D if that situation arises. At least that replacement would know he would have almost total control of his position. I'm sure coach O does get involved during game week on what they will gameplan in certain situations also, he's not just sitting there admiring their work that is nonsense. The man knows football his problem at OM was that he got involved in everything and did too much then was too strict on everyone. I think he's learned a lot from P Carroll who also is a CEO type coach. He hires the best assistants and let's them work. O knows lots of people so he could really put a dream team cast around him. I think he does much better then people think he will. GT
The argument is if and when we lose the so called genius on O and D then what, or if we are in a tight situation who makes that call for the overall team. He will probably lean on someone in the offseason for advice at least I would hope he does. I also trust that he will have plans in place a replacement for O and D if that situation arises. At least that replacement would know he would have almost total control of his position. I'm sure coach O does get involved during game week on what they will gameplan in certain situations also, he's not just sitting there admiring their work that is nonsense. The man knows football his problem at OM was that he got involved in everything and did too much then was too strict on everyone. I think he's learned a lot from P Carroll who also is a CEO type coach. He hires the best assistants and let's them work. O knows lots of people so he could really put a dream team cast around him. I think he does much better then people think he will. GT
Posted on 11/29/16 at 12:28 am to apfour21
It's not good to put all of your faith in one person, but has Arranda done anything to show you his gameplans don't work?
So any defensive HC + Arranda does not provide the equal ability of an offensive HC + an OC?
I agree, a sound offensive HC would've been great, but now we have O. Let's get behind O and cheer on the Tigers. Im providing a different perspective for all of these "fans" that seem to think having an offensive head coach is the only way. Believe it or not, not every HC out there is an offensive one.
So any defensive HC + Arranda does not provide the equal ability of an offensive HC + an OC?
I agree, a sound offensive HC would've been great, but now we have O. Let's get behind O and cheer on the Tigers. Im providing a different perspective for all of these "fans" that seem to think having an offensive head coach is the only way. Believe it or not, not every HC out there is an offensive one.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 12:31 am to BayouBengal99
I was a Herman supporter that had O second on the list. However, I can completely agree with what you just said. I feel about the exact same way as you truthfully. Many seem to think that O has learned nothing, but I think what he did this year and at USC really showed his coaching maturity and what learning under some of the greatest can do for you. Like you said, pulling in a ring of staff like Bama has would really stiffen up the holes that some think could possibly cave in the coaching of LSU.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 12:34 am to LSUTigerFan1996
A good HC can have positive input and ability to help game plan on both sides of the ball. I would've been happy with one who could help with one. We got one who helps with none. I will not be happy about it and never will be. What happens when/if Aranda leaves? Hypothetically speaking....what if he never gets the right OC. Then Aranda keeps the team afloat as a 3 or 4 loss team every year but then eventually a team will come calling for him to be their HC or an NFL team for their DC. Then you're stuck with O who still can't get the offense right and then has no Aranda. That could happen as early as after next season.
This post was edited on 11/29/16 at 12:44 am
Posted on 11/29/16 at 12:53 am to LSUTigerFan1996
quote:
Many are saying O does not have the X's and O's to run a team. If Arranda wasn't here, I would understand the cancern. But having an OC with complete reign is what would still happen if LSU had hired a defensive-minded coach that doesn't meddle with the offense.
This.
If LSU picks a badass on OC, I'll love the O hire. If not, Alleva shouldn't make it to Christmas.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 12:54 am to apfour21
Omg this isn't how it works, you think even an offensive head coach gets involved in the offense and usually when that does happen it's negative results, look what happened when Jim H got involved this week and look at auburn? When did they start having success? When he gave the reins over to his OC he hired, if the HC did all the play calling then what would be the purpose of the OC? The HC may help in the direction of the offense in game week or change the direction midgame but if you don't think Orgeron is and was doing that then you don't know what your talking about. Just because some idiot on the rant says he does nothing doesn't mean it's the truth. He's the HC he's telling these guys what he likes and doesn't like I promise you that. You people are so freakn ignorant it's unreal. Like I said the man knows football and he at least doesn't have the ego to change everything himself, he will gather the information from the coaches and make a decision, that's how a team is supposed to work.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 1:04 am to BayouBengal99
Oh boy. You admit yourself in the OP "Many say he does not have an offensive skill set or defensive skill set. Which is true, he can't coach up an offense, and besides DL, I probably would not choose him coaching up the entire defense." you wouldn't want him to run either side of the ball yet you trust him to help make proper in game adjustments and help with game plans. His biggest quality according to supporters is own "he stays out the way."
And you never addressed what happens when Aranda leaves? Because you admitted yourself you aren't worried about the defense simply because he is here.
quote:Yes it is. Head Coaches most certainly do help coach.
Omg this isn't how it works
quote:Where did I ask for a HC who would do play calling?
When he gave the reins over to his OC he hired, if the HC did all the play calling then what would be the purpose of the OC?
quote:I'm sure he is but that doesn't mean he is correct.
He's the HC he's telling these guys what he likes and doesn't like I promise you that.
quote:I'm sure he will but the track record of the one time he was a full time coach where he had to do all of these thing it was a fricking disaster. Sorry for being skeptical about his ability to do these things.
Like I said the man knows football and he at least doesn't have the ego to change everything himself, he will gather the information from the coaches and make a decision, that's how a team is supposed to work.
And you never addressed what happens when Aranda leaves? Because you admitted yourself you aren't worried about the defense simply because he is here.
This post was edited on 11/29/16 at 1:11 am
Posted on 11/29/16 at 1:29 am to LSUTigerFan1996
You miss the point
Miles was still not an x and o guy either and neither was his idol Bo
Miles was still not an x and o guy either and neither was his idol Bo
Posted on 11/29/16 at 2:30 am to LSUTigerFan1996
What happens when Aranda leaves in 2 years and we can't pull in an elite O or D coordinator? You're left with O who you admit can't do anything. That's the whole problem.
Those who think we're just going to be able to take in elite coordinator after elite coordinator to mask O's deficiencies need to look at how many elite people lined up for the HC vacancy recently.
Those who think we're just going to be able to take in elite coordinator after elite coordinator to mask O's deficiencies need to look at how many elite people lined up for the HC vacancy recently.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 2:50 am to emanresu
Just out of curiosity, I understand the skepticism of orgeron's abilities, but the assumption perpetuated is that he knows nothing of the fundamentals of offense or defense. Would you imagine after spending nearly everyday for 30+ years around football he has to have a vast amount of knowledge of both? Especially with the time spent under the tutelage of a couple of the great minds of college football. I mean it's football not biochemical engineering....
This post was edited on 11/29/16 at 2:55 am
Posted on 11/29/16 at 5:24 am to apfour21
quote:
What happens when/if Aranda leaves?
You get one of the next best DCs out there for $200, Chuck?
This post was edited on 11/29/16 at 5:25 am
Posted on 11/29/16 at 5:31 am to emanresu
quote:
Those who think we're just going to be able to take in elite coordinator after elite coordinator to mask O's deficiencies need to look at how many elite people lined up for the HC vacancy recently.
Filling coordinator positions are much easier than getting a top line HC. It was easy for Les Miles to get Aranda after not choosing him the previous year. That's where LSU and money starts to have an impact as a destination because it's at life changing levels comparatively speaking.
This post was edited on 11/29/16 at 5:33 am
Posted on 11/29/16 at 6:25 am to LSUTigerFan1996
i think coach O in this situation needs to focus on keeping everyone focused, hyped up, fundamentals and execution...let his assistants and coordinators do the rest
Posted on 11/29/16 at 7:40 am to SkepTic
quote:
I mean it's football not biochemical engineering....
Yeah, but I hear Coach O actually knows a thing or two about biochemical engineering. Gave a lecture on it to grad students just the other day.
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