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Misconception: Archer recruited garbage
Posted on 4/6/10 at 1:04 pm
Posted on 4/6/10 at 1:04 pm
Another thread got me thinking about the common misconception. People want to give Hallman a break saying he was a good recruiter where Archer was not. BUT, Archer's classes were largely comprised of blue chip talent, and when Archer's recruits were put in the hands of the single worst coaching staff in LSU history, it tended to make them not shine so bright.
Are you telling me Archer's talent made Hallman look bad? Wait......why didn't Hallman's own salvage his career?
Remember, Hallman's recruits improved under Dinardo's watch......what if Archer's were given the same opportunity under Dinardo? Hmmmmmm
Are you telling me Archer's talent made Hallman look bad? Wait......why didn't Hallman's own salvage his career?
Remember, Hallman's recruits improved under Dinardo's watch......what if Archer's were given the same opportunity under Dinardo? Hmmmmmm
This post was edited on 4/6/10 at 1:06 pm
6
Posted on 4/6/10 at 1:07 pm to CharlesLSU
Chad Loup and Odell Beckham, for instance?
Posted on 4/6/10 at 1:07 pm to PiscesTiger
G. Haffner ruined both.
Buddy King was another talent assassin......
Buddy King was another talent assassin......
This post was edited on 4/6/10 at 1:09 pm
Posted on 4/6/10 at 1:09 pm to CharlesLSU
Charles, you seem behind the scenes during that time. Speak your mind.
Posted on 4/6/10 at 1:13 pm to PiscesTiger
Just a bunch of unprofessional, unqualified assholes. For Christ's sake, Hallman ran them to the tune of 14+ 110 yd. sprints the Sunday after games and they were in full pads on fricking Thursday afternoon before a game. Just very poor coaching and management.
Posted on 4/6/10 at 1:16 pm to CharlesLSU
1991 vs Texas A&M
Once again, exhibit A:
1991 LSU vs Texas A&M
Net yards rushing:
Texas A&M 409 / LSU 31
Sacks by:
Texas A&M 5 / LSU 1
Time of Possession
Texas A&M 36:06 / LSU 23:54
That was the worst performance by an LSU D-line OR O-line that I have ever seen... That's what I think of when I think about Mike Archer's recruiting. It's burned into my memory. I would not say he was worse than Hallman, but he was in way over his head.
Once again, exhibit A:
1991 LSU vs Texas A&M
Net yards rushing:
Texas A&M 409 / LSU 31
Sacks by:
Texas A&M 5 / LSU 1
Time of Possession
Texas A&M 36:06 / LSU 23:54
That was the worst performance by an LSU D-line OR O-line that I have ever seen... That's what I think of when I think about Mike Archer's recruiting. It's burned into my memory. I would not say he was worse than Hallman, but he was in way over his head.
Posted on 4/6/10 at 1:24 pm to Clockwatcher68
The 1991 oline was a bit of a down year after losing Blake Miller (All-SEC) at center and breaking in a bunch of new faces.
Posted on 4/6/10 at 1:41 pm to CharlesLSU
remember James Jacquet? he was the diesel before the diesel in many ways
Posted on 4/6/10 at 1:47 pm to CharlesLSU
Actually, the recruiting started tapering off with Arnsparger. Archer was too young at the time and really ruined his career. If he would have waited 10 years, I really think he could have been a good head coach.
Posted on 4/6/10 at 1:48 pm to CharlesLSU
quote:
The 1991 oline was a bit of a down year after losing Blake Miller (All-SEC) at center and breaking in a bunch of new faces.
I don't want to criticize the players, because i'm sure they were trying. That was a depressing game though... kinda makes me appreciate how good we have it now.
Posted on 4/6/10 at 1:51 pm to Clockwatcher68
actually beat tam the year before. Same key players in both games. Tells you something about Curly.
Posted on 4/6/10 at 1:52 pm to TheBaker
quote:
Hallman ran them to the tune of 14+ 110 yd. sprints the Sunday after games and they were in full pads on fricking Thursday afternoon before a game. Just very poor coaching and management.
Me and a few fellas were laughing about this recently. Hallman was a nut case! He would try'n blackout the old fieldhouse so no one would know. He would kill the team.... Ya boy Jaime Howard would always call the NCAA on'em but Hallman didn't give a shite!
Posted on 4/6/10 at 2:38 pm to CharlesLSU
quote:
The 1991 oline was a bit of a down year after losing Blake Miller (All-SEC) at center and breaking in a bunch of new faces.
It wasn't the talent it was the completely insane coaching technigues by the staff.
Posted on 4/6/10 at 4:49 pm to CharlesLSU
arnsparger did not recruit at all. he felt like if they wanted to come to lsu they would. Archer had the same mind set. N EITHER ONE HARDLY EVER LEFT CAMPUS ON RECRUITING TRIPS. Hallman did a terrible job in the N.O. area and we disoriented a lot of N.O. coaches. Denardo made up some of this ground and saban seemed to heal the wounds that remained.
Posted on 4/6/10 at 5:00 pm to CharlesLSU
quote:
Archer's classes were largely comprised of blue chip talent
Are you saying that LSU had NFL talent back then, but that Hallman destroyed their career potential? Sorry, but I just find that hard to believe.
I usually respect your opinion way more than most, and that of tigger too, but on this whole Archer was a better recruiter than Hallman thing, I think you've both gone off the deep end.
Who were all these great talented players recruited by Archer that were ruined by Hallman? Who did Archer get besides Kinchen (a legacy) and Mawae (a diamond in the rough)?
I'm guessing you have some residual bitterness (probably justified) toward Hallman from your days with LSU, but I think that you might be letting Hallman's arse-clownish behavior bias your assessment of Archer's recruiting prowess. Not that it was all Archer's fault. There were other things going on back then with academic requirements, the politics of LSU, and the politics of Louisiana in general. We've been over these before, but if you're going to claim that Archer was a good recruiter, it would be nice if you backed up that claim with a more in-depth explanation.
Posted on 4/6/10 at 5:23 pm to Doc Fenton
Archer was a good recruiter, his problem was that some how he got the idea that he couldn't win with Louisiana talent. Look at his classes they are litered with bigtime recruits who were pursued by most of the big time programs.
Posted on 4/6/10 at 5:29 pm to Ponchy Tiger
People keep telling me this, but I don't know who they're talking about. It might be that other schools were thought to be pursuing certain recruits, but that they were duds.
It's just strange that Archer's recruiting class represented an absolute low at LSU in terms of NFL talent (at least since the 40s), and that somehow the only explanation as to how this can be reconciled with Archer being a good recruiter is to say that somehow Hallman ruined a bunch of pro-potential careers with his practices. That just doens't seem plausible to me.
It's just strange that Archer's recruiting class represented an absolute low at LSU in terms of NFL talent (at least since the 40s), and that somehow the only explanation as to how this can be reconciled with Archer being a good recruiter is to say that somehow Hallman ruined a bunch of pro-potential careers with his practices. That just doens't seem plausible to me.
This post was edited on 4/6/10 at 5:30 pm
Posted on 4/6/10 at 9:27 pm to Doc Fenton
Doc, in '88 and '89 Archer signed 10 of the top 12 state ranked recruits.....the other 2 weren't offered in each year. Look at the names in the 1989 class: Ro Swan was in the top 5 LBs in the nation, Jeff Cancienne was ranked in the top 5 OTs in the nation, Loup was a 1st team Parade AA and offered by everyone, Wes Jacobs was a 1st team AA and offered by everyone, Odell Beckham was coveted by Texas, Ronnie Simnicht was the top DL in the state of MS, Ross Setters was the top oline recruit in the state of Missouri with an offer from Notre Dame (big deal then), Harold Bishop was an All South TE out of Bama and had offers from every SEC school, and Shannon Nevodomsky was an AA with standing offers from Texas, Oklahoma, etc. These are just a few I remember, but there were many more with recruiting pedigrees. Tom Lemming had the 1989 class ranked in the top 10 with the oline class being the #1 unit in the country, Max Emfinger had the oline unit at #1 as well.
I have intimate knowledge of the 1987-1992 years in recruiting and my memory is terribly sharp.....I also have those publications in the attic.
Anyhoo, Doc, not trying to start a fight as I also typically respect your perspective as well.....we will agree to disagree.
I have intimate knowledge of the 1987-1992 years in recruiting and my memory is terribly sharp.....I also have those publications in the attic.
Anyhoo, Doc, not trying to start a fight as I also typically respect your perspective as well.....we will agree to disagree.
Posted on 4/6/10 at 9:36 pm to CharlesLSU
Well, I'll concede that Beckham and Bishop were great recruits, but what happened to Ro Swan, Jeff Cancienne, Chad Loup, Wes Jacobs, Ronnie Simnicht, and Ross Setters?
In your opinion, would any of those guys have had pro potential with another coaching staff besides Hallman's?
In your opinion, would any of those guys have had pro potential with another coaching staff besides Hallman's?
Posted on 4/6/10 at 9:36 pm to CharlesLSU
quote:
well, that has been our achilles tendon all year
Curley Hallman.
Nuff said.
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