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Message
re: Mediocre is 2 - 9 versus ranked teams over the last 2.5+ seasons
Posted on 10/28/10 at 11:51 pm to DP40
Posted on 10/28/10 at 11:51 pm to DP40
quote:
Soooo LSU was not talented in '08, '09? ('10 still TBD)
At certain positions, sure.
At key positions, not really.
Were we talented at QB? No.
Were we talented on the OL? Not really.
Were we talented on the DL? Nope.
Hard to win games when you don't have any of those things.
Seniors in 2008 would be from the 2004 and 2005 classes.
Here's your senior class in 2008... you show me the NFLers from this group:
Demetrius Byrd
Darry Beckwith
Tremaine Johnson
Ryan Miller
Tyson Jackson
Herman Johnson
Brett Helms
Curtis Taylor
Marlon Favorite
Quinn Johnson
Charles Alexander
Kirston Pittman
I count 3 from that group that are currently in the NFL, 1 of them is a starter.
2009:
Al Woods
Chris Mitchell
Rahim Alem
Ciron Black
Lyle Hitt
Perry Riley
Jacob Cutrera
Danny McCray
Charles Scott
RJ Jackson
Chris Hawkins
Harry Coleman
Richard Dickson
Keiland Williams
Brandon LaFell
From this group, I count 4.
Okay, so let's look at Alabama 2009.
Brandon Deadrick
Terrance Cody
Mike Johnson
Javier Arenas
Kareem Jackson
Marquis Johnson
So Bama last season had 1 less NFL-caliber senior than LSU had in 2008 and 2009 combined.
I've had a few, and I'm probably crazy talking, so just ignore me.
1
Posted on 10/28/10 at 11:52 pm to OBUDan
So Miles isn't the recruiter I think he is, or just not developing talent?
Posted on 10/28/10 at 11:55 pm to OBUDan
quote:
Talent wins about 95% of games.
BS !!!!! Talent is a label placed on a kid that some of these services see on video only. And only against high school talent. How many 2* that go pro, or 5* that go bust do you need links on to prove that.
No school had better access to talent than Notre Dame did, yet look what happens when you put ineffective coaching in with some of the best talent in the country
quote:
1964–74 Ara Parseghian 95 - 17 - 4 .836
1975–80 Dan Devine 53 - 16 - 1 .764
1981–85 Gerry Faust 30 - 26 - 1 .535
1986–96 Lou Holtz 100 - 30 - 2 .765
1997–01 Bob Davie 35 - 25 .583
Wanna see Faust's talent?
Blair Kiel
Greg Bell
Mike Golic
Bob Crable
Joe Howard
Mike Gann
Dave Duerson
Mark Bavaro
Tom Thayer
Mike Haywood
Allen Pinkett
Steve Beuerlein
John Carney
Tim Brown
Eric Dorsey
Andy Heck
Lou Holtz came in and went undefeated in '88
Posted on 10/28/10 at 11:55 pm to LSUMafia
quote:
Who is responsible for the shitty 2006 class?
Attrition.
Posted on 10/28/10 at 11:56 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
BS !!!!! Talent is a label placed on a kid that some of these services see on video only. And only against high school talent. How many 2* that go pro, or 5* that go bust do you need links on to prove that.
Didn't say anything about stars...
Posted on 10/28/10 at 11:58 pm to OBUDan
you're splitting hairs now. Seriously, give it up.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 12:01 am to OBUDan
quote:
Didn't say anything about stars...
define talent?
because a kid that makes it big in CFB, just might have been coached up, right?
Posted on 10/29/10 at 12:01 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
So Miles isn't the recruiter I think he is, or just not developing talent?
Some of it is missed evaluations, sure. But that happens to everyone.
Tyler Love was a highly prized 5 star LT in 2008. He's a third stringer at Bama right now.
Attrition slaughtered this team the last two years. Just murdered it. And that's the kind of thing you can't anticipate. If Miles was as forgiving as Meyer, we might be in better shape, but as is the case, that's not how things played out.
You can look at the 2006 class and some of the 2007 class and guys we lost purely to bad fortune and see how much they could have helped this team.
But the evaluation stuff is getting better. It's easy to see because these guys are making impacts already: Tyrann Mathieu, Chris Faulk, Rueben Randle, Russell Shepard, Eric Reid, James Wright, Craig Loston, Lamin Barrow, Spencer Ware, Alfred Blue... all of these guys were recruited in the past two years and are already seeing the field.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 12:02 am to RobbBobb
quote:
define talent?
because a kid that makes it big in CFB, just might have been coached up, right?
Alright, how about Richard Dickson. Was he talented?
He ran about a 5.0 40.
He was a 6'3, 235 lb. TE.
Is this guy an ace talent? Or did Miles just get the absolute most out of a small, slow TE in the history of CFB?
Posted on 10/29/10 at 12:03 am to jdrumdog
quote:
jdrumdog
You haven't said anything in like 6 posts other than "give it up" "you're wrong" etc. etc. etc.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 12:04 am to OBUDan
You are reaching way too far at this point. Basically you are saying anyone could coach LSU now, and that the lack of talent isn't even the coaching staff's fault.
Then why did LSU pay Miles 4 million? They should fire his arse and hire someone who will work for minimum wage.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 12:06 am to OBUDan
quote:
You haven't said anything in like 6 posts other than "give it up" "you're wrong" etc. etc. etc.
You're right. Mostly because you should and you are.
you screwed up your coaching comment, you can admit you were wrong, it's ok.
This post was edited on 10/29/10 at 12:07 am
Posted on 10/29/10 at 12:07 am to OBUDan
quote:
Is this guy an ace talent? Or did Miles just get the absolute most out of a small, slow TE in the history of CFB?
Was rarely used his Sr season and was wide open quite often when he played. Watch the film.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 12:07 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
You are reaching way too far at this point.
I have no idea what he's trying to prove here. Posts are borderline incoherent, it's just getting ridiculous at this point.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 12:08 am to OBUDan
quote:
Alright, how about Richard Dickson. Was he talented?
Glad you brought him up. Kinda disappeared his Sr yr "21 passes for 157 yards." But with a different QB in '08 "One of the most productive tight ends in the SEC in 2008 ... Earned second-team All-SEC honors after catching 31 passes for 324 yards and five touchdowns"
Dickson was better when the right QB was on the field. So Miles did not coach him up. In fact, benching JLee hurt Dickson and the entire offensive production.
Poor coaching move. And he's still doing the same coaching
Posted on 10/29/10 at 12:09 am to OBUDan
Look, I don't disagree with you guys on everything. I probably got reactionary tonight because I'm already in a pissy mood and like I've said, I've got a few in me.
I'm not happy with the past two years any more than anybody else. But I do think a lot of shite has gone down that's played into that.
I've also seen multiple programs fire coaches who they deemed to be "mediocre" only to watch them suffer for 6, 7, 8 years through a couple of poor hirings.
I think a large segment of society is largely impatient... we want results and we want them now. So in 2008, sure we'll let Les have an off year. He's been great to date, right? Then 2009 the piling on starts.
But not many consider everything that might have gone in to that. It's difficult to judge. Is Les a horrible coach or an average one? I don't think so. Is he a great coach? I don't know, but probably not.
I think he's a tremendous recruiter that will excel if he's surrounded by competent assistants. I've been a Les Miles fan for longer than his tenure at LSU. I watched him take lesser talented Okie State teams and beat top ranked OU teams. But he also lost to teams like La. Tech.
He's fricking puzzling. I can't figure out the mystery, honestly. Very little makes sense about Les Miles, but sometimes that's half the fun of having him as a coach.
I'm not happy with the past two years any more than anybody else. But I do think a lot of shite has gone down that's played into that.
I've also seen multiple programs fire coaches who they deemed to be "mediocre" only to watch them suffer for 6, 7, 8 years through a couple of poor hirings.
I think a large segment of society is largely impatient... we want results and we want them now. So in 2008, sure we'll let Les have an off year. He's been great to date, right? Then 2009 the piling on starts.
But not many consider everything that might have gone in to that. It's difficult to judge. Is Les a horrible coach or an average one? I don't think so. Is he a great coach? I don't know, but probably not.
I think he's a tremendous recruiter that will excel if he's surrounded by competent assistants. I've been a Les Miles fan for longer than his tenure at LSU. I watched him take lesser talented Okie State teams and beat top ranked OU teams. But he also lost to teams like La. Tech.
He's fricking puzzling. I can't figure out the mystery, honestly. Very little makes sense about Les Miles, but sometimes that's half the fun of having him as a coach.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 12:09 am to jdrumdog
quote:
I have no idea what he's trying to prove here. Posts are borderline incoherent, it's just getting ridiculous at this point.
Some people can't admit they are wrong. This is an extreme example.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 12:13 am to RobbBobb
quote:
Poor coaching move. And he's still doing the same coaching
Who in their right mind wanted Lee to start last season?
You can revise history all you want, but there was maybe a 2% group of people who wanted Lee last season, and those guys are just tired Lee apologists.
Lee played his way off the field in 08. JJ played his way onto it and was rightfully awarded the starting job in 2009 after his solid performance in the bowl.
He proceeded to put up completely competent stats last season, even with a non existent running game.
In 2010, he's completely regressed to the point of wondering who the hell is this guy and why isn't he playing at Northwestern St.?
Is that coaching? Absolutely. Is that Miles? Not necessarily.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 12:13 am to OBUDan
quote:
He's fricking puzzling. I can't figure out the mystery, honestly. Very little makes sense about Les Miles, but sometimes that's half the fun of having him as a coach.
That's something that bears some thought. If you wonder why people are so incendiary when it comes to Miles, you just stated some pretty valid reasons right there.
A lot of people are scared of the unknown if we fire him or let him go. A lot of people think that what we have is a great unknown already.
That in itself is pretty polarizing.
Posted on 10/29/10 at 12:14 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Some people can't admit they are wrong. This is an extreme example.
Admit I was wrong about what?
I mean, we've been talking in hypotheticals for the past 20 minutes... basically it's opinion vs. opinion.
So your opinion is right because two other people here agree with you?
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