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Message
re: LSU's academic presence in the SEC
Posted on 12/20/10 at 11:29 am to TulaneTigerFan
Posted on 12/20/10 at 11:29 am to TulaneTigerFan
quote:
I'm not trying to support Bama, but that ranking you linked isn't attempting to rank academic quality. It's trying to rank the web presence of each university. Look at the name of the website.
Also, FWIW, the US News and World Reports ranking is highly dubious.
For a ranking to really matter to you, it has to be specific - like a specific degree program.
1
Posted on 12/20/10 at 11:30 am to TulaneTigerFan
quote:
Nah, it's not included at all. Neither is endowment size.
Yes, it is. And not necessarily endowment size, but alumni giving rate, which can be/is inherently tied to the endowment fund.
quote:
Financial resources (10 percent). Generous per-student spending indicates that a college can offer a wide variety of programs and services. U.S. News measures financial resources by using the average spending per student on instruction, research, student services, and related educational expenditures in the 2008 and 2009 fiscal years. Spending on sports, dorms, and hospitals doesn't count.
quote:
Alumni giving rate (5 percent). This reflects the average percentage of living alumni with bachelor's degrees who gave to their school during 2007-08 and 2008-09, which is an indirect measure of student satisfaction.
They also include faculty salaries, fwiw.
LINK
Posted on 12/20/10 at 11:36 am to Puffoluffagus
I didn't realize research spending was a portion of the financial resources category. It's still not "mostly based on research money" though. It's mostly based on peer surveys and graduation rates.
Posted on 12/20/10 at 11:43 am to SouthOfSouth
quote:retarded post
I had a friend who failed out of LSU and got a full ride scholarship to bama... I will never believe that is a better school than LSU
Posted on 12/20/10 at 11:45 am to The Mick
I know someone that failed out of LSU, then graduated from Oregon top 5 in class in Math. Therefore, LSU >>> UofO.
this is a stupid game.
this is a stupid game.
Posted on 12/20/10 at 12:07 pm to TulaneTigerFan
quote:
mostly based on peer surveys and graduation rates.
The peer ranking category is among the most dubious aspects of USNR. The peer ranking is determined by a small percentage of the academics who actually return their surveys to USNR, and many, if not most, are not really familiar with the schools they are asked to evaluate.
Posted on 12/20/10 at 12:14 pm to Puffoluffagus
quote:
U.S. News is going to have the most "credible" ranking.
Remember, US News rankings put alot of weight on Alum contributions and "prestige". Obviously one can be measured and the other not objectively. However, other than the huge endowment that a Harvard has, how does alum giving make a univ. better than another?
Posted on 12/20/10 at 12:52 pm to tigerinridgeland
quote:
The peer ranking category is among the most dubious aspects of USNR. The peer ranking is determined by a small percentage of the academics who actually return their surveys to USNR, and many, if not most, are not really familiar with the schools they are asked to evaluate.
This.
I was a recruiter for engineering students a few years back. I recruited @ LSU, & then was sent to Texas in Austin to recruit for a few years. The dept. head @ TX told me that his dept. had been ranked #1 at one time, but he didn't brag much about it because he knew the rankings were based largely on subjective surveys & he didn't want to make any waves while he was ranked #1. The surveys tend to favor those programs that have a large enrollment & are invested in advertising/promoting themselves. For example, an LSU engineering dept. could raise a ton of $ & then offer full-ride scholarships to very highly qualified students worldwide. Many of those students would not have otherwise considered enrolling in that school or dept. without the scholarship. Kind of reminds me of the "Pony Excess" approach, without really being against the rules.
One thing that I feel strongly about is that LSU graduates should join the Alumni Assoc. or LSU Foundation & make annual contributions. The individual amounts do not have to be much, but would really add up if ALL alumni contributed something annually. Raising our endowment to >$1 billion would be huge for our school in terms of recognition.
Posted on 12/20/10 at 1:19 pm to WhoDatTiger
Just tell your "friend" to go frick himself. If that doesn't show academic superiority, I don't know what does.
Seriously, my take on academics is this:
For the most part, school is what you make of it. With some exceptions, you're going to learn the same stuff at LSU as anywhere else in the world. The exceptions come if a school has a specialist professor or program, such as Mary Manheim in LSU's forensics dept, you may get a better edge at LSU. Some schools have better mentors in different fields.
Traditional "Prestige" schools will give you the upper hand in making connections. The students and professors at those schools are the best, brightest, wealthiest, best-connected and most likely to have access to vast amounts of capital. Become part of their clique, and you increase your chances of tapping their resources and thus making money.
Nearly any state school will provide an equal education.
Seriously, my take on academics is this:
For the most part, school is what you make of it. With some exceptions, you're going to learn the same stuff at LSU as anywhere else in the world. The exceptions come if a school has a specialist professor or program, such as Mary Manheim in LSU's forensics dept, you may get a better edge at LSU. Some schools have better mentors in different fields.
Traditional "Prestige" schools will give you the upper hand in making connections. The students and professors at those schools are the best, brightest, wealthiest, best-connected and most likely to have access to vast amounts of capital. Become part of their clique, and you increase your chances of tapping their resources and thus making money.
Nearly any state school will provide an equal education.
Posted on 12/20/10 at 1:22 pm to The_Pistol
I applied to a bunch of schools in high school, because our counsellors bought us McDonalds for every 5 schools we applied to. I chose all the ones that didn't require an essay. Alabama was one of them, and I later received a full academic scholarship. I recieved only a partial one from LSU...but there is no way an hell you could pry me away from this campus.
ETA:
The actual rankings of the SEC are this:
Vandy
...
UF
Georgia
Bama/LSU/Auburn/Tenn
...
Everybody else.
...
Ole Miss.
ETA:
The actual rankings of the SEC are this:
Vandy
...
UF
Georgia
Bama/LSU/Auburn/Tenn
...
Everybody else.
...
Ole Miss.
This post was edited on 12/20/10 at 1:24 pm
Posted on 12/20/10 at 1:25 pm to fab4lsu
quote:just 5%.
US News rankings put alot of weight on Alum contributions
quote:if you mean academic reputation, then this is quantified via peer ratings. It accounts for 22.5% - 25% of the ranking, and the peer ratings are 2/3 other universities, and 1/3 high school counselors (I shite you not).
and "prestige"
For the record, about half of peer universities that are polled actually respond.
There is NO category for endowment size, so whoever mentioned that was off.
US News and World Reports tweaks the formula every year to inhibit schools chasing the methodology, but they don't tweak it enough to really make a difference.
Posted on 12/20/10 at 1:42 pm to WhoDatTiger
LINK
If you put weight in ACT scores for students entering, then LSU is slightly ahead of Alabama, in the same range as Auburn, Tenn., etc. But the differences are not great among any except Vandy. Vandy was #26, LSU was 277, and UA was 361, with Auburn and Tenn just ahead of LSU and USCe higher up.
If you put weight in ACT scores for students entering, then LSU is slightly ahead of Alabama, in the same range as Auburn, Tenn., etc. But the differences are not great among any except Vandy. Vandy was #26, LSU was 277, and UA was 361, with Auburn and Tenn just ahead of LSU and USCe higher up.
Posted on 12/20/10 at 2:37 pm to kjacksonp
quote:Too bad there aren't many of these. That is why the out migration rate is so high. Right now, LSU is educating graduates for jobs in Houston, Dallas, and Atlanta.
A degree from LSU almost guarantees a job somewhere in Louisiana.
Posted on 12/20/10 at 3:26 pm to Spirit of Dunson
quote:
There is NO category for endowment size, so whoever mentioned that was off.
I don't disagree with this statement, BUT a school's endowment INdirectly affects so many things a university can do to improve itself such as building better facilities, attacting top professors/researchers, providing scholorships to top students, etc. Former chancellor Mark Emmert knew this fact & was instumental in pushing the "Forever LSU" campaign. It's not a coincidence that many of the perceived best universities have large endowments. Again, endowment is not a direct parameter for rankings, but is the foundation for a great university. I don't know any way LSU can improve its status without a larger endowment, but I know a larger endowment will open doors for LSU.
This post was edited on 12/20/10 at 3:36 pm
Posted on 12/20/10 at 3:40 pm to Bandits
quote:
That is why the out migration rate is so high.
I've heard that 25% of LSU graduates move to the Houston/Dallas areas.
Posted on 12/20/10 at 3:47 pm to Black Bengal
I don't disagree that having a big endowment allows the college to do other things that would affect the final ranking, however the same can be said for a lots of indirect things that are not in the rating.
As for overall endowment affecting the rankings, there is certainly a correlation (as I will show below), but it may not be causal. some of that may be chicken and egg: great schools produce great alumni that give generously back. Also, some of the schools with the biggest endowments were the first to start them, and compounding interest has helped! Also, having an large endowment takes extreme fiscal restraint NOT to spend it in tough times... I can't see our state legislature doing that.
Largest Endowment List:
Harvard
Yale
Stanford
Princeton
UT system
MIT
Mich
Columbia
U Chicago
Northwestern
Penn
Texas A*M System
U Cal System
Notre Dame
Duke
Emory
Washington University in St. Louis
Cornell
Rice
UVA
Vanderbilt
Dartmouth
USC
NYU
U Minn
US News Rankings:
Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Columbia
Stanford
Penn
Cal Tech
MIT
Dartmouth
Duke
U Chicago
Northwestern
Johns Hopkins University
Washington University in St. Louis
Brown
Cornell
Rice
Vanderbilt
Notre Dame
Emory
Georgetowne
UC Berkeley
Carnegie Mellon
USC
UCLA
If anything, these lists may show what some schools are doing poorly - Mich has the 7th largest endowment, but isn't ranked in the top 25. However, endowments are absolute entities, and most ranking factors are normalized, so large schools don't gain as much.
As for overall endowment affecting the rankings, there is certainly a correlation (as I will show below), but it may not be causal. some of that may be chicken and egg: great schools produce great alumni that give generously back. Also, some of the schools with the biggest endowments were the first to start them, and compounding interest has helped! Also, having an large endowment takes extreme fiscal restraint NOT to spend it in tough times... I can't see our state legislature doing that.
Largest Endowment List:
Harvard
Yale
Stanford
Princeton
UT system
MIT
Mich
Columbia
U Chicago
Northwestern
Penn
Texas A*M System
U Cal System
Notre Dame
Duke
Emory
Washington University in St. Louis
Cornell
Rice
UVA
Vanderbilt
Dartmouth
USC
NYU
U Minn
US News Rankings:
Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Columbia
Stanford
Penn
Cal Tech
MIT
Dartmouth
Duke
U Chicago
Northwestern
Johns Hopkins University
Washington University in St. Louis
Brown
Cornell
Rice
Vanderbilt
Notre Dame
Emory
Georgetowne
UC Berkeley
Carnegie Mellon
USC
UCLA
If anything, these lists may show what some schools are doing poorly - Mich has the 7th largest endowment, but isn't ranked in the top 25. However, endowments are absolute entities, and most ranking factors are normalized, so large schools don't gain as much.
Posted on 12/20/10 at 3:58 pm to Spirit of Dunson
Its possible that like anyone reading the "my endowment can beat up your endowment" list, one might assume that since Harvard has the largest/longest/most girthful endowment, it must be the best University. Therefore he/she will (peer or otherwise) rate it the highest.
Not saying that is the causal factor, just a hypothesis.
Not saying that is the causal factor, just a hypothesis.
Posted on 12/20/10 at 4:04 pm to Spirit of Dunson
quote:
It is probably more important for prospective students to look at individual departments/majors than the overall school ranking by USNR
This. I graduated from LSU with a B.A. in Geography and when I was in school, the program was top 5 in the country, surrounded by the likes of Penn State, Berkeley and UCLA. I think it might've slipped a few spots in the last few years, but it's still the best Geography program in the SEC.
Posted on 12/20/10 at 4:47 pm to The_Pistol
quote:
For the most part, school is what you make of it. With some exceptions, you're going to learn the same stuff at LSU as anywhere else in the world. The exceptions come if a school has a specialist professor or program, such as Mary Manheim in LSU's forensics dept, you may get a better edge at LSU. Some schools have better mentors in different fields.
The pistol nailed it.
Posted on 12/20/10 at 4:57 pm to Fenster
quote:possibly, but Harvard has had its reputation way before endowment awareness was prevalent.
Its possible that like anyone reading the "my endowment can beat up your endowment" list, one might assume that since Harvard has the largest/longest/most girthful endowment, it must be the best University. Therefore he/she will (peer or otherwise) rate it the highest.
Not saying that is the causal factor, just a hypothesis.
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