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re: LSU Strength and Conditioning Program...Is it doing the job?
Posted on 3/3/10 at 11:04 pm to TigahRag
Posted on 3/3/10 at 11:04 pm to TigahRag
basically the same guy's been running for 10 years or so .. right ?? in that time, there have been 2 national championships, 3 SEC championships .. 4 BCS bowl game appearances, etc. .. my guess is that it is working ..
People slip. No one is 100% consistent in their job. Are any of you impressed with the S&C program over the last two and a half years? Even in '07, LSU began to get behind the curve at the latter part of the season.
I am not gonna bash the program but questions are legit.
Give me some reason, besides "Moffitt is soooo awesome" as to why the program is making LSU a better football team?
People slip. No one is 100% consistent in their job. Are any of you impressed with the S&C program over the last two and a half years? Even in '07, LSU began to get behind the curve at the latter part of the season.
I am not gonna bash the program but questions are legit.
Give me some reason, besides "Moffitt is soooo awesome" as to why the program is making LSU a better football team?
1
Posted on 3/3/10 at 11:10 pm to OTIS2
quote:
our best OL in the combine sux...our starting safety, possibly one of the best athletes on the team ,can't bench his weight 10 fricking times and is slow for his position...and the fastest man in college football...aint. Where the frick do we place the damn blame????
and we have 12 guys at the combine, more than any team.
why? because obviously people saw something on game film they liked.
why? because Moffit trains the team to have functional football strength. Not to perform well in combine drills.
The same reason we've had players drafted in the 1st and 2nd rounds that didnt do great at the combine(Clayton, Bowe, Spears, Dorsey, Webster, Hill, Josh Reed, etc, etc.). Because people like what they see when they turn on the film. Not how many reps they can do on the bench.
quote:
..our starting safety, possibly one of the best athletes on the team ,can't bench his weight 10 fricking times and is slow for his position
slow for his position? He ran a 4.56 @ 221 lbs. Thats hardly slow for that weight, or slow for his position(SS).
Tommy Moffit has his hand in 4...yes 4, national championship teams. He's been national S&C of the year. He has a mantle full of awards, actually. I can't believe he cannot get the benefit of the doubt because some kid cant bench 225 20 times. For fricks sake you people are stupid
This post was edited on 3/3/10 at 11:11 pm
Posted on 3/3/10 at 11:11 pm to evil cockroach
Words escape me...I have no response to this jibberish except that I hope you recieve a government check each month.
Posted on 3/3/10 at 11:13 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Tommy Moffit has his hand in 4...yes 4, national championship teams. He's been national S&C of the year. He has a mantle full of awards, actually. I can't believe he cannot get the benefit of the doubt because some kid cant bench 225 20 times. For fricks sake you people are stupid
What the frick does that have to do with the teams performance the past two seasons?
Are you impressed?
Posted on 3/3/10 at 11:23 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
What the frick does that have to do with the teams performance the past two seasons?
Are you impressed?
am i impressed??
gameday coaching has been the obvious problem. Not strength and conditioning.
not that hard to see.
Moffit is great at what he does. He is not the problem. You dont become a shitty S & C Coach over night.
Posted on 3/3/10 at 11:25 pm to RogerTheShrubber
I agree with you. Moffitt forgot how to run his program.
Posted on 3/3/10 at 11:26 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Moffit is great at what he does. He is not the problem. You dont become a shitty S & C Coach over night.
So everyone is always consistent in what they do? Don't think so. LSU was pushed all over the field the past two seasons, including vs La Tech. We can blame the coaching, players, position of the sun, etc..
but hell, question the state of the S&C program and you get blasted? I think its more than fair to question if there isn't a problem.
Posted on 3/3/10 at 11:30 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
So everyone is always consistent in what they do? Don't think so
in this regard, his strength and conditioning programs have been proven to be championship caliber. Bottom line.
consistency on Moffit's park is pretty easy when you break it down when you have something that has proven to work. It's weightlifting. It's running. It's diet. It's proven method to producing championship teams. Dont question it, you look stupid.
people are calling for Les Mile's head for a reason. There has been a glaring letdown on the coaching staff's part the last 2 years. Coupled with shitty QB play and in 2009 a young and shitty OL and DL. Thats why we are losing. Thats why we are getting pushed around.
Posted on 3/3/10 at 11:36 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
consistency on Moffit's park is pretty easy when you break it down when you have something that has proven to work. It's weightlifting. It's running. It's diet. It's proven method to producing championship teams. Dont question it, you look stupid.
Yeah, I am the one "looking stupid." Les Miles has won a NC as well, guess he is infallible, like Moffitt?
LSU is producing mediocre athletes, for whatever reasons. Claiming the S&C coach is infallible is beyond pathetic. People have have every right to question, based on the strength and conditioning of LSU athletes.
For whatever reason, what Moffitt is doing at LSU is producing less than stellar results. Bottom line.
Posted on 3/3/10 at 11:44 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
For whatever reason, what Moffitt is doing at LSU is producing less than stellar results. Bottom line.
Maybe what Miles puts the athletes through in the fall is what is the problem
Posted on 3/3/10 at 11:47 pm to Rocket
quote:
Maybe what Miles puts the athletes through in the fall is what is the problem
IT could be Rocket. There could be a variety of issues. May not be the head S&C guy, but it also very well may be. For whatever reasons, the program isn't producing strong or conditioned athletes. Not saying Moffitt is the sole reason, but to totally absolve him of responsibility is ludicrous as well. I have no problem admitting when I am wrong, and will here as well if proven wrong.
This post was edited on 3/3/10 at 11:56 pm
Posted on 3/3/10 at 11:57 pm to RogerTheShrubber
He doesn't train for combine results. That's not what he was hired to do.
Like I said, we've won 99 games the past 10 seasons. Not that many other programs have done that. Him and his program has been the constant, what's changed has been coaching regimes. It wasn't but back in 2007 where we didn't lose a game in regulation.
It's also possible that Miles has orded Moffitt to make some changes in the offseason program. Or perhaps these players just aren't as motivated/hungry as they used to be.
I'm not convinced to say for sure Moffitt is the problem, or there is a problem with the program. Besides, if there was, neither you or I or anyone in this thread could say specifically what it is.
Like I said, we've won 99 games the past 10 seasons. Not that many other programs have done that. Him and his program has been the constant, what's changed has been coaching regimes. It wasn't but back in 2007 where we didn't lose a game in regulation.
It's also possible that Miles has orded Moffitt to make some changes in the offseason program. Or perhaps these players just aren't as motivated/hungry as they used to be.
I'm not convinced to say for sure Moffitt is the problem, or there is a problem with the program. Besides, if there was, neither you or I or anyone in this thread could say specifically what it is.
Posted on 3/4/10 at 12:05 am to Rocket
quote:
He doesn't train for combine results. That's not what he was hired to do.
Exactly....
Posted on 3/4/10 at 12:13 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Les Miles has won a NC as well, guess he is infallible, like Moffitt?
Coaching is X's and O's. Each game, shoot, each play, brings something different. There are so many variables that come into Les Miles' job and what happens between the lines. Some things he cant control, but a lot of it, he can.
It's not even comparable to Tommy Moffit's role with the program.
quote:
LSU is producing mediocre athletes, for whatever reasons
what? You dont know what u are talking about, im sorry.
LSU is top 5, maybe even top 3 in terms of having the most players in the NFL by an individual college.
They have put numerous 1st round picks and high round picks in the NFL under moffit, including 3 in the top 5 picks in the draft.
This year they had 12 players at the combine and potentially could have 9 or 10 guys drafted. Maybe more.
Think about that. That is huge. You're so spoiled by LSU's success you cant even see what has happened the last 8 years or so.
quote:
For whatever reason, what Moffitt is doing at LSU is producing less than stellar results. Bottom line.
Don't know what you define "less that stellar results". TEams are still picking LSU players high despite medicore combine workouts.
Ask yourself why, maybe you'll understand. I'll help you; scouts and NFL personnel like what they see on the field. And what does Moffit do? he teaches strength and conditioning as functional football strength...not for the combine. Thats totally on the players once they leave LSU
These players are doing so shitty at the combine, in your words....THEN WHY THE frick ARE TEAMS DRAFTING THEM SO HIGH???
Jararcus Russell, Dorsey, Landry, Bowe, Clayton, Devery, Buster Davis, Corey Webster, Travis Daniels, Whitworth, yada yada yada. I could go on all day.
You keep saying "we can question Moffitt all we want..."....well you have little to base that on.
This post was edited on 3/4/10 at 12:16 am
Posted on 3/4/10 at 12:36 am to RogerTheShrubber
I have a copy of the LSU, Florida, and USC(sample week) off-season strength and conditioning programs. I can email them to whomever thinks there is some huge variance in protocols between programs. USC does core work first and operate with a 45 seconds of rest instead of the 60-90 Florida and LSU use. There are slight differences but they're really just changes in overall sequence.
A players commitment is the single most important factor to his conditioning. During the times of years when their are no "team lifts" and SID drills, it's all personal accountability.
A players commitment is the single most important factor to his conditioning. During the times of years when their are no "team lifts" and SID drills, it's all personal accountability.
Posted on 3/4/10 at 12:56 am to Lunchbox48
SID drills? Is that like an ATM machine? Ha! As far as being pushed around us concerned, there is so much more to bring able to push someone around than just measureables. Look, this reminds me a lot of the argument of whether or not urban meyer was responsible for teaching tebow a more pro friendly throwing motion. I say absolutely not! The same way moffitt is not required to make his players more ready for the combine. We got pushed around against bama because they didn't use rivals to tell them who to sign for the past there years like we did. That's why our classes appeared to be similar on the internet, but they obviously were not on the field. That was a mistake made by our staff as a whole. They are fixing it moving forward. TRUST ME! All I can tell you is that I have a very reputable source for all of these opinions I have. Let's just say its from the horses mouth.
Posted on 3/4/10 at 1:08 am to bengaltygers
quote:
The lack of mental toughness with examples of bama imposing their will on us etc are by products of poor recruiting IMO. For the past few years we have let rivals tell us who the football players were instead of evaluating talent on a much deeper level like saban did. You have backed up your claim of having better recruiting classes than them with ratings from rivals. That is the equivalent of an NFL team deciding who to draft based solely on combine numbers. There is no drill to measure heart and toughness or competitive nature or work ethic. So, my claim is that bama obviously had better recruiting classes than us the past few years, despite what rivals said. Same as my belief the moffitt has a great offseason program, despite how many reps our players do at the combine.
I agree with most of this, but combine numbers will affect the overall quality of recurites we sign. recurites will take notice of our combine results, and poor combines sure don't help recuriting.
Posted on 3/4/10 at 2:04 am to Lester Earl
quote:
why? because Moffit trains the team to have functional football strength. Not to perform well in combine drills.
But that still doesn't mean they have to be weak on lifts. When someone has a low functional strength this doesn't necessarily mean that they have low "non-functional" strength. If they have a higher level of functional strength, then they should also be at that level in "non-functional" strength tests also.
quote:
The same reason we've had players drafted in the 1st and 2nd rounds that didnt do great at the combine(Clayton, Bowe, Spears, Dorsey, Webster, Hill, Josh Reed, etc, etc.). Because people like what they see when they turn on the film. Not how many reps they can do on the bench.
You just completely destroyed your own side of the argument. Yeah, they have the skill and the athletic ability, but not the physical strength. They're getting drafted because they have a high upside. This basically means that they weren't near their peak physical potential in college and are being drafted not on their strength or speed, but how strong or how fast they CAN be.
quote:
slow for his position? He ran a 4.56 @ 221 lbs. Thats hardly slow for that weight, or slow for his position(SS).
We all know that CJ isn't the best at pass coverage now, and that he has always relied on his speed to bail him out of situations. He ran a 4.56, and the three top safeties all ran 4.43, 4.47, and 4.48. Not a huge difference, but definitely a different gear. Even several LB's outran him and a couple of tightends too.
He's 6-3 221. The safeties that ran the times above are 6-3 230, 6-0 211, and 5-11 206. They're all thicker than him, so it is pretty slow both for his position and his size.
The highest bench by a safety was 28. The 2 of safeties that ran the fastest 40s posted 24 and 19.
It doesn't take a genius to realize that as far as physical assets go, he doesn't match up.
quote:
Tommy Moffit has his hand in 4...yes 4, national championship teams. He's been national S&C of the year. He has a mantle full of awards, actually. I can't believe he cannot get the benefit of the doubt because some kid cant bench 225 20 times.
True, but you can't argue that it doesn't look like there are a bunch of girl scouts in the P and G out there sometimes against the more physical SEC teams. You can't say "he's good" just because he has won awards(and none of them are recent). Even Obama won a Nobel Peace Prize...
Posted on 3/4/10 at 2:10 am to LSUdm21
quote:
Our players not being in shape HAS NOT BEEN THE PROBLEM.
Our O and D line has been seeming weak compared to the lines of the past.
Posted on 3/4/10 at 2:16 am to Rocket
quote:
I'm not convinced to say for sure Moffitt is the problem, or there is a problem with the program. Besides, if there was, neither you or I or anyone in this thread could say specifically what it is.
Thats fair enough, and I believe i stated that in the previous post as well. But it would be pretty stupid to look at the play on the field and claim there is no problem, and in no way could Moffitt's program to be blamed. Again, LSU is far from the most physical, strongest and better conditioned teams in the league. In fact, there was only one game vs an FBS team last year in which LSU looked like it was and that was against Auburn, who had limited scholorship players...
This post was edited on 3/4/10 at 2:21 am
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