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Started By
Message
LSU fans, I've watched your last 13 games, and I have some observations and questions for
Posted on 8/31/18 at 10:36 am
Posted on 8/31/18 at 10:36 am
quote:
I've now completed my project of watching LSU’s entire 2017 season. My goal is to learn the players' names, numbers, and big plays, and so I kept open a tally sheet and jotted quick notes when I caught something interesting. I then collected 13 games' worth of notes to produce this hopefully unbiased commentary. First I'll offer comments on the various units, then a brief FAQ and methodology discussion, and finally some questions I have for you. Usually I preview a nonconference opponent that Oregon has coming up, but since there’s no Power-5 game this year I picked Sunday’s interesting ranked matchup - yesterday
LINK
12
Posted on 8/31/18 at 10:37 am to Oneforthemoney
Been waiting all morning for that write up. Its strange to see an unbiased, outside point of view.
Posted on 8/31/18 at 10:40 am to Oneforthemoney
cliffs?
Posted on 8/31/18 at 10:40 am to Oneforthemoney
Can't open the site at work. I need cliffs as well.
Posted on 8/31/18 at 10:41 am to Oneforthemoney
yawn
Posted on 8/31/18 at 10:41 am to Goldrush25
quote:
Can't open the site at work. I need cliffs as well.
What he said.
Posted on 8/31/18 at 10:55 am to Oneforthemoney
Offense
Last fall, when I set about assembling the recordings of LSU games for this write-up, I was excited to sink my teeth into what looked to be a pretty meaty offense in 2018: OC Canada’s novel scheme, a host of well regarded backup quarterbacks sure to get playing time, and a deeply experienced offensive line. Instead, Canada got chased out of town, three QBs transferred out, a transfer QB whom I’ve never seen throw a pass won the job, and the o-line looks precarious. I found myself writing far more about who’s been lost on offense than who’s returning.
Quite a bit of ink was spilled about the conflict between Canada and Coach Orgeron, but for all of that I thought the offense was pretty well suited to the talent available and didn’t actually change that much over the season. I’ll break down the underappreciated aspects in the position groups; as an overview the offense was a relatively straightforward power-running pro-style (after the shifts wrapped up), typically operating out of 12 personnel, with the wrinkle of a counter-motion jet sweep on virtually every play.
Quarterback - I thought graduated #16 QB Etling had a few obvious shortcomings - his 60% completion rate was decidedly average (and inflated by a large number of inside shovel passes), he’d miss wide open receivers at times and stare down his first option at others, and his lack of mobility started to become a liability when the offensive line injuries mounted up (more on that later).
But with that said, I thought he was pretty well suited for this offense and came to enjoy watching him play. He didn’t make a ton of mistakes and coordinated the multiple waves of pre-snap shifts perfectly - the timing for the short takeoff-ramp jet sweep from the split end when he’s coming out from under center is a lot trickier than fans might think, and he nailed it every time. He also had a surprisingly pretty deep ball (on the rare occasion he got to use it, more on that in a moment), and his toughness taking hit after hit was nothing short of inspiring. I don’t know if LSU fans were unhappy with the offense in 2017 or not, but if so, I think it’d be unfair to lay it all -- or even most of it -- at Etling’s feet.
Wide receivers - This offense typically lined up only two receivers, and they’re losing the top two guys: #7 WR Chark, a deep-field burner, and #83 WR Gage, a rangy runner and a lethal threat on sweeps. Backup #14 WR Davis has been suspended for a criminal charge. Those three together represented about three-quarters of targets, completions, and yardage by wideouts in 2017. I liked what little I saw from all the returning backups -- #19 WR Dillon, #10 WR Sullivan, #11 WR Anderson, and #3 WR Stevens, particularly Sullivan’s strong outside blocking -- but I saw them in so few meaningful snaps that I don’t know what to expect out of them from their game film alone.
And I think that more than anything else was my biggest criticism of this offense, from the standpoint of mismatching scheme to talent - they had seven receivers who were perfectly capable of both stretching the field and winning jump-balls against shorter secondaries, and yet this offense far more often utilized short dumpoffs to running backs and tight ends. There was a real opportunity to force defenses to bracket Chark, flood the other side of the field with trips going deep, and lighten up the box for some big runs or make them pay for playing cover-0, but I can count on one hand the number of times I’d see them run anything like that outside of garbage time.
Running backs - This is another unit losing the vast majority of its production: #7 RB Guice and #28 RB D. Williams. I think most of the country already understands what excellent backs they were so I’ll skip the superlatives and just say they deserve all the praise they got and more. As with the wideouts, I liked what I saw from the backups, #4 RB Brossette and #22 RB Edwards-Helaire, but I just didn’t get to watch them much.
What surprised me was how rarely they broke a huge run - they both averaged about five and a half yards per carry, and for most backs that’d a fairly normal distribution of stuffs, short runs, and explosive plays ... instead, these guys would just get about five yards every time out. It looked to me like there just wasn’t much for them to work with -- the o-line wasn’t getting much of a push and they were running into stacked boxes as defenses disrespected the passing threat -- but they’d routinely fight and claw for about three yards more than they should have gotten.
Tight ends and Fullbacks - I think LSU’s best returning offensive player is #84 TE Moreau (reportedly he’s switching to #18 this season, a jersey number I understand is of some significance in recent team lore). Both he and graduated #18 FB Moore were big, talented blockers and handled their pre-snap exercises well. I saw a smattering of plays from other big guys in this unit who return -- #41 TE Ducre, #88 TE Washington, #80 TE Pettigrew, and #44 FB Carter -- who all certainly look the part but were a marked decline in blocking effectiveness on my tally sheet.
As much as I liked Moreau’s great hands and the difficulty of bringing him down after catches, he was pretty limited as a receiving threat. Part of this is I just don’t think he’s as mobile as other tight ends I’ve seen Canada utilize during his time in the B1G and ACC, and didn’t create a speed-size conflict with linebackers or safeties defending him. But the bigger issue is that he just didn’t release downfield that often - I only show two or three targets per game on my tally sheet, and almost never deeper than 10 yards.
Offensive line - I’m happy that #64 C W. Clapp and #66 RT Weathersby were picked up by NFL teams late in the process and hope they get paid bigly. But I’ll be honest: I think they should have elected to stay for their senior years, because I saw some room for further development. Now, I could be wrong about that, as there was a near constant rotation on the rest of the line due to (I think) injuries which could have messed with their performance. The only returning player who seemed to be in for nearly every snap was #78 LG Brumfield, who I think is poised for a big senior season; #77 LT Charles, #73 OG Magee, and #79 C Cushenberry all return but were swapping positions quite a bit. The line loses #63 LT Malone to graduation; #70 RG Ingram has been suspended on criminal charges.
I can’t assess the micropolitics between Orgeron and Canada behind closed doors (I’m hardly competent to evaluate the stuff on the field that I can see), but I’m able to report the notion that Canada’s signature pre-snap motions and sweeps were scrapped in favor of more “manball” has been almost entirely fabricated by the press. That aspect of the offense was present throughout the season, and while it varied a bit game to game I thought it was all situationally appropriate to the defenses they were facing. However, the scandalously under-reported story was the near disappearance after September of the tackle-over unbalanced line formations which were really interesting and the basis of some of the most novel plays that I don’t recall seeing during Canada’s previous stops. In particular there’s a play featuring a (super)strongside power toss with motion going backside that was truly awesome to watch … it almost completely vanished halfway through the season, along with the rest of the unbalanced playbook which was a feast for students of Xs & Os. This might have been a result of Orgeron fussing with things, but I think it’s more likely that the injuries and rotation at o-line meant they were sacrificed for a necessary simplification to benefit disjointed players.
Last fall, when I set about assembling the recordings of LSU games for this write-up, I was excited to sink my teeth into what looked to be a pretty meaty offense in 2018: OC Canada’s novel scheme, a host of well regarded backup quarterbacks sure to get playing time, and a deeply experienced offensive line. Instead, Canada got chased out of town, three QBs transferred out, a transfer QB whom I’ve never seen throw a pass won the job, and the o-line looks precarious. I found myself writing far more about who’s been lost on offense than who’s returning.
Quite a bit of ink was spilled about the conflict between Canada and Coach Orgeron, but for all of that I thought the offense was pretty well suited to the talent available and didn’t actually change that much over the season. I’ll break down the underappreciated aspects in the position groups; as an overview the offense was a relatively straightforward power-running pro-style (after the shifts wrapped up), typically operating out of 12 personnel, with the wrinkle of a counter-motion jet sweep on virtually every play.
Quarterback - I thought graduated #16 QB Etling had a few obvious shortcomings - his 60% completion rate was decidedly average (and inflated by a large number of inside shovel passes), he’d miss wide open receivers at times and stare down his first option at others, and his lack of mobility started to become a liability when the offensive line injuries mounted up (more on that later).
But with that said, I thought he was pretty well suited for this offense and came to enjoy watching him play. He didn’t make a ton of mistakes and coordinated the multiple waves of pre-snap shifts perfectly - the timing for the short takeoff-ramp jet sweep from the split end when he’s coming out from under center is a lot trickier than fans might think, and he nailed it every time. He also had a surprisingly pretty deep ball (on the rare occasion he got to use it, more on that in a moment), and his toughness taking hit after hit was nothing short of inspiring. I don’t know if LSU fans were unhappy with the offense in 2017 or not, but if so, I think it’d be unfair to lay it all -- or even most of it -- at Etling’s feet.
Wide receivers - This offense typically lined up only two receivers, and they’re losing the top two guys: #7 WR Chark, a deep-field burner, and #83 WR Gage, a rangy runner and a lethal threat on sweeps. Backup #14 WR Davis has been suspended for a criminal charge. Those three together represented about three-quarters of targets, completions, and yardage by wideouts in 2017. I liked what little I saw from all the returning backups -- #19 WR Dillon, #10 WR Sullivan, #11 WR Anderson, and #3 WR Stevens, particularly Sullivan’s strong outside blocking -- but I saw them in so few meaningful snaps that I don’t know what to expect out of them from their game film alone.
And I think that more than anything else was my biggest criticism of this offense, from the standpoint of mismatching scheme to talent - they had seven receivers who were perfectly capable of both stretching the field and winning jump-balls against shorter secondaries, and yet this offense far more often utilized short dumpoffs to running backs and tight ends. There was a real opportunity to force defenses to bracket Chark, flood the other side of the field with trips going deep, and lighten up the box for some big runs or make them pay for playing cover-0, but I can count on one hand the number of times I’d see them run anything like that outside of garbage time.
Running backs - This is another unit losing the vast majority of its production: #7 RB Guice and #28 RB D. Williams. I think most of the country already understands what excellent backs they were so I’ll skip the superlatives and just say they deserve all the praise they got and more. As with the wideouts, I liked what I saw from the backups, #4 RB Brossette and #22 RB Edwards-Helaire, but I just didn’t get to watch them much.
What surprised me was how rarely they broke a huge run - they both averaged about five and a half yards per carry, and for most backs that’d a fairly normal distribution of stuffs, short runs, and explosive plays ... instead, these guys would just get about five yards every time out. It looked to me like there just wasn’t much for them to work with -- the o-line wasn’t getting much of a push and they were running into stacked boxes as defenses disrespected the passing threat -- but they’d routinely fight and claw for about three yards more than they should have gotten.
Tight ends and Fullbacks - I think LSU’s best returning offensive player is #84 TE Moreau (reportedly he’s switching to #18 this season, a jersey number I understand is of some significance in recent team lore). Both he and graduated #18 FB Moore were big, talented blockers and handled their pre-snap exercises well. I saw a smattering of plays from other big guys in this unit who return -- #41 TE Ducre, #88 TE Washington, #80 TE Pettigrew, and #44 FB Carter -- who all certainly look the part but were a marked decline in blocking effectiveness on my tally sheet.
As much as I liked Moreau’s great hands and the difficulty of bringing him down after catches, he was pretty limited as a receiving threat. Part of this is I just don’t think he’s as mobile as other tight ends I’ve seen Canada utilize during his time in the B1G and ACC, and didn’t create a speed-size conflict with linebackers or safeties defending him. But the bigger issue is that he just didn’t release downfield that often - I only show two or three targets per game on my tally sheet, and almost never deeper than 10 yards.
Offensive line - I’m happy that #64 C W. Clapp and #66 RT Weathersby were picked up by NFL teams late in the process and hope they get paid bigly. But I’ll be honest: I think they should have elected to stay for their senior years, because I saw some room for further development. Now, I could be wrong about that, as there was a near constant rotation on the rest of the line due to (I think) injuries which could have messed with their performance. The only returning player who seemed to be in for nearly every snap was #78 LG Brumfield, who I think is poised for a big senior season; #77 LT Charles, #73 OG Magee, and #79 C Cushenberry all return but were swapping positions quite a bit. The line loses #63 LT Malone to graduation; #70 RG Ingram has been suspended on criminal charges.
I can’t assess the micropolitics between Orgeron and Canada behind closed doors (I’m hardly competent to evaluate the stuff on the field that I can see), but I’m able to report the notion that Canada’s signature pre-snap motions and sweeps were scrapped in favor of more “manball” has been almost entirely fabricated by the press. That aspect of the offense was present throughout the season, and while it varied a bit game to game I thought it was all situationally appropriate to the defenses they were facing. However, the scandalously under-reported story was the near disappearance after September of the tackle-over unbalanced line formations which were really interesting and the basis of some of the most novel plays that I don’t recall seeing during Canada’s previous stops. In particular there’s a play featuring a (super)strongside power toss with motion going backside that was truly awesome to watch … it almost completely vanished halfway through the season, along with the rest of the unbalanced playbook which was a feast for students of Xs & Os. This might have been a result of Orgeron fussing with things, but I think it’s more likely that the injuries and rotation at o-line meant they were sacrificed for a necessary simplification to benefit disjointed players.
Posted on 8/31/18 at 10:56 am to transcend
Defense
DC Aranda’s squad plays out of a 3-4 with quarters coverage, sometimes pulls the nose guard for a nickel package (interestingly, DC Leavitt at Oregon does the same thing), sometimes a cover-1, with man-under looks. It’s a pretty flexible system that frees up the backers to cause havoc, but puts a lot of pressure on the DBs to stay disciplined.
Not only is this a fast, powerful scheme, but this level of raw talent across the board was remarkable. They kept this team in a couple of games they probably shouldn’t have been in and I expect the same in 2018. I will say that it seems the defense was often caught flat-footed by the unconventional, like quick snaps or trick plays - they look to the sideline for what seems to be a long time getting the signal in.
Defensive line - This group loses #18 DE LaCouture, #97 DE Herron, and #99 NT Gilmore to graduation. Gilmore was an absolute terror in the middle of the line, and Herron I believe returned from injury for the second half of the season to look pretty disruptive (albeit against a bit softer of a schedule). I was a bit disappointed in how often LaCouture got rocked back into the second level, but schematically he wound up with a lot of double-teams. I liked these guys’ replacements, #95 NT E. Alexander and #90 DE Lawrence, a whole lot; however, I didn’t see much out of the other returners -- #96 DE Logan, #92 DE Farrell, and #93 DE Thomas -- and I’m not sure I saw a second returning nose during meaningful snaps.
These guys played mostly a Tite front, squeezing the middle early and forcing the bounce outside for the backers to clean up. But I also saw a lot of stunts and confusing the o-line to clear a lane for A-gap blitzes, and was impressed by how quick on their feet some of these big guys were.
Linebackers - Damn these guys were a lot of fun to watch. The star of the show was of course #49 LB Key who demanded a ton of blocking attention, although he seemed hampered by injury for much of the year and he’s off to the NFL now. On my tally sheet, he was eclipsed by one of the best middle linebackers I’ve ever seen, #40 LB White (and only a true sophomore in 2017!), who had most of those QB-crushing blitzes and was rarely fooled by counters or play-action.
On the outside, they’re losing #48 LB D. Alexander and #23 LB Thompson to graduation; #24 LB Taylor has been suspended on criminal charges. While I didn’t see a ton of them, I did get enough snaps to say that I really liked the returning #4 LB Chaisson and #6 LB Phillips who are surprisingly strong given their slimmer builds, and #45 LB Divinity was an able backup.
Secondary - This group returns all the safeties I saw: #26 S Battle, #9 S Delpit, #30 S Monroe, and #21 S Paris. These guys are all clearly physically talented, and I really liked the way the starters Battle and Delpit tackled hard. Monroe seemed out of position a bit more, and it seems Paris disappeared early in the season (medical redshirt?). I thought this group sometimes had problems with communication and handing off coverage - bunch sets gave them some trouble when they’d cross routes.
The cornerbacks are more of a mixed bag. It was a blast to watch returning #29 CB A. Williams haul in a lot of interceptions and make some heroic breakups, though it was strange seeing him get thrown against so much and I think he goes for the ankle tackle too often. On the other side of the field, they lose both #1 CB Jackson and #2 CB Tolliver ... Jackson was hit-or-miss but ultimately has some pretty good stats, that last play in the bowl notwithstanding; I saw almost nothing of Tolliver but given how often he was on the field that’s a pretty good sign for a corner. I believe the only returning backup I saw was #15 CB Vincent, who got burned more than once but I really liked his sure tackling.
DC Aranda’s squad plays out of a 3-4 with quarters coverage, sometimes pulls the nose guard for a nickel package (interestingly, DC Leavitt at Oregon does the same thing), sometimes a cover-1, with man-under looks. It’s a pretty flexible system that frees up the backers to cause havoc, but puts a lot of pressure on the DBs to stay disciplined.
Not only is this a fast, powerful scheme, but this level of raw talent across the board was remarkable. They kept this team in a couple of games they probably shouldn’t have been in and I expect the same in 2018. I will say that it seems the defense was often caught flat-footed by the unconventional, like quick snaps or trick plays - they look to the sideline for what seems to be a long time getting the signal in.
Defensive line - This group loses #18 DE LaCouture, #97 DE Herron, and #99 NT Gilmore to graduation. Gilmore was an absolute terror in the middle of the line, and Herron I believe returned from injury for the second half of the season to look pretty disruptive (albeit against a bit softer of a schedule). I was a bit disappointed in how often LaCouture got rocked back into the second level, but schematically he wound up with a lot of double-teams. I liked these guys’ replacements, #95 NT E. Alexander and #90 DE Lawrence, a whole lot; however, I didn’t see much out of the other returners -- #96 DE Logan, #92 DE Farrell, and #93 DE Thomas -- and I’m not sure I saw a second returning nose during meaningful snaps.
These guys played mostly a Tite front, squeezing the middle early and forcing the bounce outside for the backers to clean up. But I also saw a lot of stunts and confusing the o-line to clear a lane for A-gap blitzes, and was impressed by how quick on their feet some of these big guys were.
Linebackers - Damn these guys were a lot of fun to watch. The star of the show was of course #49 LB Key who demanded a ton of blocking attention, although he seemed hampered by injury for much of the year and he’s off to the NFL now. On my tally sheet, he was eclipsed by one of the best middle linebackers I’ve ever seen, #40 LB White (and only a true sophomore in 2017!), who had most of those QB-crushing blitzes and was rarely fooled by counters or play-action.
On the outside, they’re losing #48 LB D. Alexander and #23 LB Thompson to graduation; #24 LB Taylor has been suspended on criminal charges. While I didn’t see a ton of them, I did get enough snaps to say that I really liked the returning #4 LB Chaisson and #6 LB Phillips who are surprisingly strong given their slimmer builds, and #45 LB Divinity was an able backup.
Secondary - This group returns all the safeties I saw: #26 S Battle, #9 S Delpit, #30 S Monroe, and #21 S Paris. These guys are all clearly physically talented, and I really liked the way the starters Battle and Delpit tackled hard. Monroe seemed out of position a bit more, and it seems Paris disappeared early in the season (medical redshirt?). I thought this group sometimes had problems with communication and handing off coverage - bunch sets gave them some trouble when they’d cross routes.
The cornerbacks are more of a mixed bag. It was a blast to watch returning #29 CB A. Williams haul in a lot of interceptions and make some heroic breakups, though it was strange seeing him get thrown against so much and I think he goes for the ankle tackle too often. On the other side of the field, they lose both #1 CB Jackson and #2 CB Tolliver ... Jackson was hit-or-miss but ultimately has some pretty good stats, that last play in the bowl notwithstanding; I saw almost nothing of Tolliver but given how often he was on the field that’s a pretty good sign for a corner. I believe the only returning backup I saw was #15 CB Vincent, who got burned more than once but I really liked his sure tackling.
Posted on 8/31/18 at 10:58 am to RB10
Can yall take this bullshite bickering somewhere else? It's getting to be every damn thread.
The cliffs are pretty vanilla since his write-ups are mostly looking at last season. He apologized in the opening paragraph for mostly talking about who was gone rather than who was there.
He praised some aspects of Etling's game, especially timing and his operation of the shifts, but said he was an inconsistent passer and it limited the offense.
Defense, he called Devin White the best MLB he's ever seen. General praise for other players, not a ton there.
The cliffs are pretty vanilla since his write-ups are mostly looking at last season. He apologized in the opening paragraph for mostly talking about who was gone rather than who was there.
He praised some aspects of Etling's game, especially timing and his operation of the shifts, but said he was an inconsistent passer and it limited the offense.
Defense, he called Devin White the best MLB he's ever seen. General praise for other players, not a ton there.
Posted on 8/31/18 at 10:58 am to transcend
Summary ... no idea what to expect from LSU this year.
Posted on 8/31/18 at 11:03 am to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
Can yall take this bullshite bickering somewhere else? It's getting to be every damn thread.
Why not ask the dipshit that started it?
ETA: And does in every other thread.
This post was edited on 8/31/18 at 11:05 am
Posted on 8/31/18 at 11:06 am to Oneforthemoney
quote:
he was eclipsed by one of the best middle linebackers I’ve ever seen, #40 LB White (and only a true sophomore in 2017!), who had most of those QB-crushing blitzes and was rarely fooled by counters or play-action.
this guy gets it
Posted on 8/31/18 at 11:09 am to Oneforthemoney
Thanks for posting, this is insightful to read. About to check out the Miami post from yesterday as well!
As to the mental midgets complaining about it being too long to read, well, yikes...
As to the mental midgets complaining about it being too long to read, well, yikes...
Posted on 8/31/18 at 11:10 am to SportTiger1
quote:
this guy gets it
I'm curious whether he made as many little mistakes with Miami as he did with LSU. I read it, but wouldn't know as I'm not familiar with their roster like I am with LSU's.
His analysis of the schemes and players' performance is spot on though.
quote:
Instead, Canada got chased out of town, three QBs transferred out, a transfer QB whom I’ve never seen throw a pass won the job, and the o-line looks precarious.
Etling started almost all of 2016.
quote:
This is another unit losing the vast majority of its production: #7 RB Guice and #28 RB D. Williams.
Guice was 5.
Posted on 8/31/18 at 11:11 am to RB10
quote:
Why not ask the dipshit that started it?
I don't give a flying frick who started it. Half the posts on the first page are y'all going "I know you are but what am I" back and forth. Grow up.
Posted on 8/31/18 at 11:11 am to SportTiger1
Jesus Christ!! That was long and I’ll never get that time back ever. F$&k, I’m mad at myself
Posted on 8/31/18 at 11:12 am to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
I don't give a flying frick who started it. Half the posts on the first page are y'all going "I know you are but what am I" back and forth. Grow up.
Don't read them then.
Posted on 8/31/18 at 11:12 am to SportTiger1
Great write up. What I found interesting compared to Miami’s was that he had issues with a lot of players that they have returning. (And mentioned depth was an issue quite a bit) He had less issues with our returners. Very enlightening.
Posted on 8/31/18 at 11:16 am to RB10
The transfer QB he is referring to is Burrow not Etling.
Posted on 8/31/18 at 11:16 am to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
Can yall take this bull shite bickering somewhere else? It's getting to be every damn thread
That's because one poster comes in the thread and starts it every single time. Hint, he's an alter that's been here for 2 weeks and has over 1000 posts.
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