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Started By
Message
re: Les is the best coach that LSU has ever had
Posted on 2/11/11 at 12:22 pm to BigEdLSU
Posted on 2/11/11 at 12:22 pm to BigEdLSU
quote:
its harder to maintain than to bring a program to excellence
based on what logic? Is it easier to recruit kids to a top 10 program or a losing program. Recruiting is probably the most important factor in being a powerhouse in CFB.
0
Posted on 2/11/11 at 12:25 pm to TigerFanNKaty
quote:
To me building a program is doing what Bobby Bowden did at FSU
Bingo!
If NS had gone to Vandy instead of LSU in 2000 and won a NC we could say he "built" a program, but he came to a program with a NC, a program with a Top 12 ranking all time in wins, and a program 2 years removed from their 3rd straight bowl win.
Yes, 98 and 99 were down years, but lets not act like DiNardo didn't win bout 60% of his games and leave LSU with any talent.
As to who is the best, that's all opinion based and has no right or wrong answer when you talkin' 2 winning at least 75% of their games.
Posted on 2/11/11 at 12:28 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
Saban did NOT build all of the football facilities LSU now enjoys
Has Miles improved upon the facilities? No he hasn't needed to b/c Saban asked for and got what he thought LSU needed to be more appealing to recruits. How can you even argue he didn;t improve things greratly? Just makes no sense.
quote:
I'm tired of hearing about what a miserable pile of shite LSU was when Saban got here
I guess the early 90's were the glory years
Posted on 2/11/11 at 12:31 pm to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
Bingo!
If NS had gone to Vandy instead of LSU in 2000 and won a NC we could say he "built" a program, but he came to a program with a NC, a program with a Top 12 ranking all time in wins, and a program 2 years removed from their 3rd straight bowl win.
Yes, 98 and 99 were down years, but lets not act like DiNardo didn't win bout 60% of his games and leave LSU with any talent.
As to who is the best, that's all opinion based and has no right or wrong answer when you talkin' 2 winning at least 75% of their games.
Yeh Saban did nothing for LSU...how can yall toot Miles's horn w/o tooting Sabans?
Posted on 2/11/11 at 12:33 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:History begs to differ. There are far, far more coaches out there who built programs into champions than there are coaches who sustained championship level. Bear Bryant, Knute Rockne, maybe Tom Osborne (though almost 30 years without a championship might suggest otherwise), probably Bowden (let it slip at the end, but did maintain it for many years); not many on the list of maintaining championship level football. Miles of course isn't on that list yet, either. But I agree with your assessment that he seems more likely (at this point) to reach it than Saban, especially given Saban's restless coaching history (can't maintain if you don't stick around). Whether his roaming days are truly behind him or not we won't know for another couple of years. If they are, then he clearly becomes a much better candidate for sustaining.
Not to belittle Miles but sustaining a program is easier than building one.
Posted on 2/11/11 at 12:39 pm to King Joey
Your not even close. Nick Saban is a FAR superior coach in every way shape and form. Saban assistants are getting promoted to head jobs Miles assistants, NOT a goddam 1 of them has taken a better job! Hell his co- d coordinators took huge demotions, Crowton to Marlyand? Miles is a decent program manager, he is a lousy CEO of a program! He micromanages and sticks his nose where it doesn't belong. He is a great recruiter and a high integrity man and I am happy he is our coach. But if you think he is on the same planet as Saban your terribly wrong. Miles would even tell you he isn't Saban he doesn't need to be. Saban tok LSU from a Top 50 team to a Top 5 team.
Posted on 2/11/11 at 12:40 pm to King Joey
So building FSU to championship caliber in the 70's, ND in the 50's, and Nebraska in the 60's was harder than building LSu to championship caliber in the 2000's? I don't think they can even be compared....CFB is much more competitive in todays era then the eras you used as an example.
Posted on 2/11/11 at 12:46 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:No doubt. Now quiz those same AD's who they'd rather have take over their already-championship level program. Have you noticed that none of the elite level teams that have lost coaches in the last several years have called Saban's number? Florida didn't, FSU didn't, Oregon didn't, SC didn't; why do you think people pay a guy who's never stayed anywhere more than 5 years so much money to take over their struggling programs? Because that's what he does: rebuilds and moves on.
If you polled all CFB fans and AD's, experts etc who they would hire to rebuild a program who do you think would win the poll Miles or Saban?
Again, history has far, FAR more examples of coaches who built teams into champions than coaches who maintained championship programs. That's why only one team has repeated since the Bear, and only one coach has won more than 2 titles in their career since the Bear.
Posted on 2/11/11 at 12:53 pm to golf teaching pro
quote:Well, one of them just head coached Florida State into a bowl game and another just head coached Nebraska into the Big XII Championship Game.
Miles assistants, NOT a goddam 1 of them has taken a better job!
quote:And back to an unranked team, and back to a #1 team, and back to a #15 (or so) team. Miles, on the other hand, maintained a top 5 team for three straight years (something Saban has never managed to do).
Miles would even tell you he isn't Saban he doesn't need to be. Saban tok LSU from a Top 50 team to a Top 5 team.
If we ever find ourselves a top 50 team again (god forbid), Saban is absolutely the first coach I hope we call. And when we are a championship caliber program again, I'll wave him goodbye again and say, "mission accomplished; c-ya!"
Posted on 2/11/11 at 12:57 pm to King Joey
quote:
Again, history has far, FAR more examples of coaches who built teams into champions than coaches who maintained championship programs. That's why only one team has repeated since the Bear, and only one coach has won more than 2 titles in their career since the Bear.
we will have to agree to disagree for the most part over the modern day history of CFB the powerhouses of today were powerhouses 30 years ago.
Posted on 2/11/11 at 12:58 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:What? What has that got to do with anything? I didn't mention building any of those programs. I mentioned MAINTAINING those programs.
So building FSU to championship caliber in the 70's, ND in the 50's, and Nebraska in the 60's was harder than building LSu to championship caliber in the 2000's?
Lou Holtz, Bill McCartney, Lavell Edwards, Danny Ford, Vince Dooley; they all have two things in common:
1) they built programs far removed from championship history (if any) into Championship caliber programs; and
2) they failed (for various reasons) to maintain it.
This is not a new revelation; coaches throughout most sports will tell you the same thing: the first one is incredibly tough, and it just gets harder from there.
Posted on 2/11/11 at 1:14 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:Name three "powerhouses" of college football today who have been powerhouse teams over the last 30 years?
for the most part over the modern day history of CFB the powerhouses of today were powerhouses 30 years ago.
LSU? No (see 1989-1994, et al.)
SC? No (see 1983-2002)
Oklahoma? No (see mid-late 1990s)
Alabama? No (see post-Stallings/pre-Saban era)
Florida State? Close (yes, if you are still counting them among the elite now)
Penn State? Again, close (but not likely considered "elite" at the moment)
Ohio State? No
Maintain consistent championship caliber football is a herculean task that far, far exceeds the challenges of building (or especially RE-building) a program to that level. That's why is such a rare, rare feat. Urban Meyer barely scratched the surface of it and he was considered a giant in coaching before he retired (the first time).
Again, Miles is not nearly in that category, either. His history, however, has shown more inclination towards that than Saban's has in two important ways:
1) he's stayed at one place longer than 5 years; and
2) he's managed three excellent seasons in a row, which is more than Saban has charted in his entire tenure at any program.
Posted on 2/11/11 at 1:17 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
Yeh Saban did nothing for LSU
That's your words not mine and I challenge you to find a post of mine where I didn't thank Nick for his efforts at LSU or I bad mouthed his coaching ability.
But that has nothing to do with his "building" or not "building the LSU football program. While he certainly elevated it during his time here from where he found it, he did not "build" it and it wasn't without facilities or a winning history before his arrival. imo
If we must compare the two coaches which seems to be the want of some, Nick came and decided LSU was not the place for him and, to this point in time, Les has decided LSU is the place for him. Based off their over-all records and such, I'll back Miles and others may do as they please.
Posted on 2/11/11 at 1:20 pm to BigEdLSU
quote:
11-2 last year, every thing considered, is a damn good year. Saban went 9-4 in 04 with a similar team.
Miles got the most "Miles" out of his team last year.
You gotta be fricking kidding
Posted on 2/11/11 at 1:49 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
How can you even argue he didn;t improve things greratly? Just makes no sense.
Of course it doesn't make sense, because that is the opposite of what I said. Here is an exact quote:
quote:
Yes, Saban requested and got more facilities and upgrades to existing facilities, his contribution to LSU is great, but he didn't invent LSU football.
How can YOU even argue that I'm NOT giving Saban credit for a great contribution to LSU?
quote:
I guess the early 90's were the glory years
No, they were the Hallman years. During Dinardo's tenure, that would be the MID 90's, LSU won 3 bowl games in a row for the first time in school history, LSU defeated a #1 ranked team for the first time EVER, LSU won 10 games in a season for only the 4th time in history, and in their last game before Saban's arrival, LSU beat a ranked team 35-10.
quote:
Has Miles improved upon the facilities? No he hasn't...
I believe he upgraded the lockerroom.
I think you miss my entire point, however. My point is NOT to say Saban contributed NOTHING to LSU, but my point is that Saban didn't make EVERYTHING at LSU. And it's actually quite clear in my post, you just don't seem to have the mental acuity to get past your own bias to see my point objectively.
I happen to think an argument can be made for Miles being the best football coach at LSU - and if that means punching holes in the Lord Saban Mythology that's built up over time, so be it.
Posted on 2/11/11 at 1:55 pm to golf teaching pro
quote:
NOT a goddam 1 of them has taken a better job!
That's because there ARE no better jobs than to work for LSU.
Don't believe it?
Ask Michigan.
quote:
Saban took LSU from a Top 50 team to a Top 5 team.
No, Saban took LSU from #17 to #16. Miles has taken LSU from #16 to #13.
LINK
Posted on 2/11/11 at 4:14 pm to TigerFanNKaty
quote:
Well he started it.
Posted on 2/11/11 at 8:09 pm to TieWrap
Jimbo wasn't a miles assistant jerky, he was a guy Saban hired and made good, the reason jimbo left is mea godam micromanages everything. Nick let jumbo run the offense and stayed out of his way. Miles trys to put his hands in everything and ends up messing up more than he fixes. He is an awful CEO of a program, name me 1 mes assistant, who he hired and trained that has taken a better job. You can't because miles doesnt develop assistants he doesnt have the knowledge to! Listen I like old les because he is a high integrity guy and recruits well but les's football knowledge would come in a distant second to half the highschool coaches in la 5a
Posted on 2/11/11 at 8:16 pm to golf teaching pro
quote:
Nick let jumbo run the offense and stayed out of his way.
Dumbest thing EVER typed on this board and that's saying a lot. Congrats I guess.
Posted on 2/11/11 at 8:36 pm to Tigerdew
What? Nick is a far superior CEO of a program he sticks to what he knows best defense and he let's the oc run the offense. Miles is not brilliant in any facet of football knowledge. With all miles's success at Lsu why has not 1 single NFL team interviewed him for a head job? The answer is simple to coach in the NFL you have to be a superb football mind. The greatest thing about
Miles is you never have to worry about loosing him. No nfl or college teams are going to pay thay salary. Michigan wasn't either. He is not worth that much.
Miles is you never have to worry about loosing him. No nfl or college teams are going to pay thay salary. Michigan wasn't either. He is not worth that much.
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