- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Jarret Lee throwing off back foot
Posted on 6/21/10 at 4:11 pm to deuce985
Posted on 6/21/10 at 4:11 pm to deuce985
quote:
Crowton's problem is not just predictable plays with certain personnel packages, its his inability to adjust schemes to team strengths too. Sounds like a very stubborn coach to me or a very dumb one. Take your pick.
All of the above plus a horrible developer of talent. He is the best in the business when he already had developed players who fit his system. But when he has to develop his own players or tweak his system to fit his personnel, he is awful.
0
Posted on 6/21/10 at 4:13 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
Crowton has a consistently had the reputation of being an awful QB coach. This is why his offenses go from white hot to crap in a few years.
Gary crowton has consistently had a great offense or poor offense depending on the qb talent. you can say this for just about every o.c. Check out norm chow at u.s.c. and norm chow at n.c. state, u.c.l.a, and the titans.
he's not lighting it up over there at u.c.l.a. what happened to ole norm? How about the ole ball coach? he was a great qb coach at u.f., u.s.c. hasn't had quality qb play since he's been there.
Posted on 6/21/10 at 4:23 pm to dos crystal
quote:
Gary crowton has consistently had a great offense or poor offense depending on the qb talent. you can say this for just about every o.c. Check out norm chow at u.s.c. and norm chow at n.c. state, u.c.l.a, and the titans
No, he is had great offense when he doesn't have to develop the talent. It is totally different from a talent v. no talent argument.
He is a terrible QB coach.
Posted on 6/21/10 at 4:46 pm to therocketscientist
quote:
NOT throw off his back feet
as opposed to what? his FRONT set of feet???????
You sound like you have never experienced the game of football---------as a player.
Posted on 6/21/10 at 6:30 pm to therocketscientist
I played QB through high school and my freshman year in college before switching positions, and Lee is not throwing off his back foot because he hasn't been taught otherwise. Crowton and Lee both see it and it's obviously been stressed to Lee that he can't do it and be successful.
The problem is, it's entirely different when you're on the field and facing a rush. We hear about how Lee plays so much better in practice than he does in the games, and lots of QB's do. One reason is pretty simple: You're not going to get hit in practice.
I think Lee feels the rush when it's not even there, and it causes him to throw off his back foot. It's also one reason he doesn't get sacked very much but instead throws interceptions. If he starts to feel the rush, he sometimes gets skittish and throws into coverage rather than hold onto the ball and feel the rush get closer.
Some of it is lack of experience and some of it is just nervousness. But some of it is just whether he wants to stand there in the face of the rush and step into his throws. No one can make him do that, regardless of how much he's been told. He's got to have the resolve to do it and take his licks from the rush or he will throw off his back foot throughout his career..
The problem is, it's entirely different when you're on the field and facing a rush. We hear about how Lee plays so much better in practice than he does in the games, and lots of QB's do. One reason is pretty simple: You're not going to get hit in practice.
I think Lee feels the rush when it's not even there, and it causes him to throw off his back foot. It's also one reason he doesn't get sacked very much but instead throws interceptions. If he starts to feel the rush, he sometimes gets skittish and throws into coverage rather than hold onto the ball and feel the rush get closer.
Some of it is lack of experience and some of it is just nervousness. But some of it is just whether he wants to stand there in the face of the rush and step into his throws. No one can make him do that, regardless of how much he's been told. He's got to have the resolve to do it and take his licks from the rush or he will throw off his back foot throughout his career..
Posted on 6/21/10 at 6:44 pm to BillF
lee is the practice king
has been since spring of 2008
he always excels in practice
has been since spring of 2008
he always excels in practice
Posted on 6/21/10 at 8:31 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
No, he is had great offense when he doesn't have to develop the talent. It is totally different from a talent v. no talent argument.
He is a terrible QB coach.
go look at his career at la tech. come back and tell me what years his offense excelled. that pretty much throws your argument out the window. if he couldn't develop the talent, then why did his offense improve over time? how did tim r get better? how did he get the chicago job? he had to do well over time.
all this development talk is a bunch of bull s. chow hasn't developed a qb since matt l. martz can develop kurt w. but not john kitna. loyd carr can develop tom brady but not henson. jimbo can develop davey and j.r. but not marcus randal. who gets credit for flynn? curley can develop b. favre?
why is it all these small schools develop so many pros from jerry rice, leon lett, to marcus colston, larry allen, to j evans, k warner, to flaco, big ben, to b favre? they are getting better coaching than at u.s.c., bama, lsu, penn state, ohio state, oklahoma, texas? the silliest argument in all of football!
Posted on 6/21/10 at 9:21 pm to BillF
quote:
The problem is, it's entirely different when you're on the field and facing a rush.
But he tends to do it even when he's not facing a rush. I would say that it's analogous to a batter in baseball bailing out with his front foot because he's afraid of getting hit with a pitch.
Yes, it's ultimately up to the player to make the mental change. And, yes, it's sometimes harder in game conditions. But in the larger scheme of things, it's just not that hard of a thing for a coach to correct if only he designs a special drill to prevent it from happening.
Posted on 6/21/10 at 9:25 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
But in the larger scheme of things, it's just not that hard of a thing for a coach to correct if only he designs a special drill to prevent it from happening
Concur. It is a no-brainer to recognize the problem, and any coach that ID's the problem (which should be easy to spot) and who cannot come up with several remedies/drills towards helping JLee improve in this area, is probably not worth much as a coach.
Posted on 6/21/10 at 9:28 pm to dos crystal
quote:
then why did his offense improve over time
it doesn't
quote:
Crowton runs a version of the spread offense. When he gets a new job, his first year has been great. Let the stats explain.
Chicago Bears
1999: Bears record was 6-10. Their offense scored 272 points (17/game), 7th worst in the NFL. 31 TDs, 7th worst in NFL (source). Leading passer: Shane Matthews
2000: Bears record was 5-11. Their offense scored 214 points (13.4/game), 4th worst in the NFL. 22 TDs, 3rd worst in the NFL (source). (The thing that you want to do from an offensive standpoint is you want to score points.) Leading passer: Cade McNown
It’s safe to say that he didn’t have the greatest quarterbacks to run his offense. Get this though. In 2001, the Bears went 13-3 with Jim Miller as the quarterback. They scored 338 points (21.1/game), good enough for 11th in the NFL.
BYU
2001: BYU went 12-2. They scored an amazing 608 points (46.8/game). Luke Staley was the leading rusher in the nation. However they got killed in their last two games. Everybody loved Crowton as head coach. What a great season! But it was a terrible watching them get killed by Hawaii and Louisville. Coincidentally, Luke Staley was injured in the two games BYU lost.
2002: Their record was 5-7. BYU’s first losing season in 30 years. They scored 272 points (22.7/game).
2003: BYU went 4-8. They scored 196 points (16.3/game). They didn’t score a point in the game versus Utah, the first time they went scoreless in a game in my lifetime.
2004: BYU went 5-6. They 267 points (24.3/game).
BYU went from scoring 608 points in 2001 to a low of 196 points in 2003! This was against average teams in the Mountain West Conference. He was the head coach and offensive coordinator at BYU.
Oregon
2005: Oregon went 10-2. They scored 414 points (34.5/game).
2006: Oregon went 7-6, losing their last 4. They scored 383 points (29.5/game).
There you have it. The only year he improved upon his previous year while at the same program was 2004. BYU couldn’t have gotten any worse after a terrible year in 2003.
The truth is Gary Crowton has a good offense. But smart teams are going to figure it out. Guess who was coaching Utah when BYU went scoreless in 2003-Urban Meyer. Most of the coaches in the SEC are almost as smart as Urban and they will shut down LSU’s offense. LSU has great athletes and he will find a way to make them look bad.
The Las Vegas Bowl was a great game this year. For most fans, I am sure it was a boring game. BYU almost shut out Oregon and won the game 38-8. Watching Oregon play brought back bitter memories of when Crowton was at BYU. They looked clueless out there. BYU’s secondary was injured. They didn’t have most of their best players playing because of injuries. Crowton failed to take advantage of his highly athletic receivers. Instead he was worrying about which quarterback to play on which down.
Be ready for an undisciplined offense that fails to make any adjustments-during the game or season.
LSU will probably have a great year with their athletes. They will score a lot of points. But don’t expect them to stay that way. Not with Crowton as the offensive coordinator. The numbers don’t lie.
LINK
Posted on 6/21/10 at 10:20 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
calling the wrong plays and formations, which put pressure on Lee, who then gets rattled and makes the mistakes
I agree. making J Lee throw into the flat after the whole world has seen him freeze when having to throw into the flat was/is just crazy of CG.
Posted on 6/22/10 at 8:42 am to TheDoc
quote:
it doesn't
still waiting for the la tech tenure i referenced. why was it omitted? interesting. could it be his la tech tenure disputes the point?
i wouldn't consider this link as something with credible credentials. hell, you can post my thread on it and i have as much credibility.
i can right that same blog about the ole ball coach, norm chow, mike martz ect.
Posted on 6/22/10 at 8:57 am to TheDoc
Lee can't handle the pressure of a real game..panics and throws PICK 6
Posted on 6/22/10 at 8:59 am to Brett425
this may be true. now, how do you coach him not to do that. according to some, all you need a good qb coach. you can turn anyone into peyton manning with a good qb coach.
Posted on 6/22/10 at 9:04 am to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
Good grief. The problem is not the fact that GC can't "teach" Lee to not throw off of his back foot, it's that GC keeps putting Lee into positions where he's not comfortable, calling the wrong plays and formations, which put pressure on Lee, who then gets rattled and makes the mistakes
This is the exact problem right here. It's not that I know more then Crowton, it's just that Crowton seems to have a tendency to ruin a young QBs confidence by putting him in situations he is not comfortable with. The problem is Crowton has done this constantly since he's been here. Is it a coincidence that BOTH of our upperclassmen QBs have little confidence in themselves? Which sucks because Jarrett Lee has all the tools to be a fantastic QB
The best hope for Chris Garrett and Zach Lee is that they NEVER play a down under Crowton.
Posted on 6/22/10 at 9:13 am to Chimlim
Zach Lee is going to become an amazing qb...I hear talks of him playing this year but I worry that it could ruin his confidence for years to come if he didnt perform well
Posted on 6/22/10 at 5:56 pm to dos crystal
quote:
how did tim r get better?
You do realize Tim Rattay was a JUCO transfer to La Tech, right?
He led the NCAA in passing yards and efficiency his first season at La Tech. He hardly "developed." He was already peaked when he got to Ruston.
Posted on 6/22/10 at 6:21 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
But he tends to do it even when he's not facing a rush. I would say that it's analogous to a batter in baseball bailing out with his front foot because he's afraid of getting hit with a pitch.
Yes, it's ultimately up to the player to make the mental change. And, yes, it's sometimes harder in game conditions. But in the larger scheme of things, it's just not that hard of a thing for a coach to correct if only he designs a special drill to prevent it from happening.
I understand what you're saying about Lee throwing off his back foot even when he's not facing a rush. That's why I had said he feels the rush even when it isn't there.
Some of you old-timers might remember Fred Dean (a defensive lineman who's in the NFL Hall of Fame). When he was bearing down on me, every coaching tip I'd ever had regarding my footwork went right out the window. Lee may not be facing Fred Dean, but I think the rush is in his mind all the time.
I think you can drill and drill on things, but if he just doesn't have the resolve to take a shot in the chest to deliver the ball, no drill will help when he's facing a live rush instead of skeleton drills in practice. It's not a matter of footwork or technique, it's a matter of toughness. Lee will either develop it or not.
Posted on 6/22/10 at 6:37 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
You do realize Tim Rattay was a JUCO transfer to La Tech, right?
He led the NCAA in passing yards and efficiency his first season at La Tech. He hardly "developed." He was already peaked when he got to Ruston.
come on, still waiting on the offensive production progression for g.c. at tech. why are you ignoring it? why are you posting some random blogger link w/o it?
if he had peaked and was so great, why did he go to tech? how did he get drafted? think his production at tech had something to do with it? you think it was his j.c. career/production that got him drafted? hmmm.
This post was edited on 6/22/10 at 6:49 pm
Posted on 6/22/10 at 7:00 pm to BillF
quote:
but if he just doesn't have the resolve to take a shot in the chest to deliver the ball,
this wasn't a problem against Auburn when he got drilled while throwing the TD pass. Frankly I think his problem is recognizing the coverage. Many of his picks were on-target, non-rushed throws, he just didn't see the safety or a linebacker dropping into coverage. Instead of working around this, Crowton kept thinking he'd get it with experience, and by the end of the season in '08 his mind was goo.
Page 3 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News