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re: Herb Tyler versus JJ, who would you rather have?
Posted on 5/18/11 at 2:50 pm to Lonnie4LSU
Posted on 5/18/11 at 2:50 pm to Lonnie4LSU
quote:JJ had a rough season last year, but is #10 in LSU career TD passes, as a Jr with 2.2 yrs PT.
Continually calling him out over and over and over as some feel the need to do is more than a little over the top. imo
I see defensive breakdowns as our main problems in 2 losses last year, though the UTk win was nearly a loss due to offense.
If we get decent OL play, I think we'll be fine.
2
Posted on 5/18/11 at 2:58 pm to tuptiger
quote:
. Outside of Rohan Davey, I would want Herb Tyler over any quarterback who has started a game within the last 10 years.
not sure if serious
Posted on 5/18/11 at 4:15 pm to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
Continually calling him out over and over and over as some feel the need to do is more than a little over the top.
I know winning isn't everything, but the JJ detractors do seem to forget that he leads the offense to victory a high percentage of the time. I'm not going to argue that when he's bad, he's REALLY bad. He would likely not dispute that in person. However, your point about the over-the-top negativism over a kid that tries hard and does not give up on plays (which leads to bad results sometimes) and has won games against big opponents, in big venues, on the big stage, is very well taken.
Some of this is Sabanism "by proxy" - there is similar, poorly-supported criticism of Miles' coaching abilities on the Rant and among the fanbase at large.
This post was edited on 5/18/11 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 5/18/11 at 4:26 pm to Ace Midnight
ace midnight, VERY, VERY well said, I could not agree more....I am the OP on this and while I am not shocked that HT won by a long way, I am surprised how strong (borderline hate) the anti JJ's are. I can fully accpet someone saying HT is thier choice, but still think a legit case can be made either way and think many forget the heat HT got (many wanted b sparacino to start!), the offense 95-98 was very hit and miss and other than UF game in 97 (won by the defense IMO) the HT teams beat who they should have beaten and lost who they should have lost.
Posted on 5/18/11 at 5:56 pm to Mayhawman
quote:
JJ had a rough season last year...
I agree....at least to the Bama game. I thought his play from Bama on out, for the most part, was adequate and his Cotton Bowl play was just plain good.
As to the D, I have no idea why we looked so poor vs. the rush at Auburn or why we looked so poor vs. the pass at Arkansas, but on the whole...the D played pretty dang good and saved our butts more than once.
Posted on 5/18/11 at 7:15 pm to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
I know winning isn't everything, but the JJ detractors do seem to forget that he leads the offense to victory a high percentage of the time.
I would seriously question your definition of lead if that is what you call JJ doing to the offense. We would not have won the Fla or Tenn games last year if he would have stayed in the game.
Several games we won because of Defense and special teams and Ridley's power running. The West Va, Vandy, McNeese and ULM games to mention a few where JJ did little or in the case of the Mcneese game nothing to help. Even the Auburn and Arkansas games while the D did give up a good bit of yardage especially the rushing yardage in the 2nd half alot of that was because they were on the field virtually the whole half due to JJ leading continuous 3 and out drives look at the play by play of those two games especially the 2nd half.
If JJ had produced a decent amount of offense in those two games LSU could have very well gone undefeated. Him being the starting qb does not mean he lead the offense to the wins. The d and special teams just had more to overcome because he was out there,
Posted on 5/18/11 at 7:23 pm to Rudy40
quote:
think many forget the heat HT got (many wanted b sparacino to start!),
Secman you are vastly overstating the many who wanted sparacino comment. It was a small group of diehard Denham Springs fan who called the talk shows almost on a daily basis. It was a running joke amongst my friends at the time when we heard one call in we knew we would hear a sparacino rant. One of my good buddies who was coaching in high school at the time and had seen sparacino play several times mentioned numerous times if sparacino ever got on the field in a meaninful game that talk would end. Unfortunately he was correct and we witnessed how bad Sparacino was in the 96 LSU-Bama game where he went in after Tyler was hurt late in the first quarter and proceeded to go 8-35 with two interceptions.
Posted on 5/18/11 at 8:39 pm to Rudy40
quote:
Secman you are vastly overstating the many who wanted sparacino comment.
anyone who wanted Sparacino to start after the '96 Bama game need to be beaten and hanged in a public setting
Posted on 5/18/11 at 9:49 pm to secman12
quote:
and think many forget the heat HT got (many wanted b sparacino to start!),
Honestly, I don't remember hearing that much, if at all. And if it did happen among a small group of fans, it's simply one of the many cases in the storied history of LSU fans, where the ill-informed think the solution to any problem (defense, offense, special teams, high gas prices) is to play the QB riding the pine. It would have had little to do with Tyler's perfomance on the field.
quote:
the offense 95-98 was very hit and miss and other
You need to go back and watch the '98 season. The offense averaged over 30 points a game. It was the defense that could stop anybody.
This post was edited on 5/18/11 at 9:50 pm
Posted on 5/18/11 at 10:26 pm to JudgeBoyett
quote:
You need to go back and watch the '98 season. The offense averaged over 30 points a game. It was the defense that could stop anybody.
True Lou Tepper ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Posted on 5/19/11 at 8:27 am to Rudy40
quote:
I would seriously question your definition of lead if that is what you call JJ doing to the offense.
He gives them the play, he takes the snap and hands or throws to the designated player. Did you read my next sentence when I said I would not argue a proposition that when he's bad, he's REALLY bad?
I came in the thread supporting Herb Tyler, but the Jordan bashing is over-the-top for a player who can still statistically be the winningest QB in LSU history.
He's had bad games. The offense has been very, very low, productively under his helm. Do we have to say that over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over? He's 20. Were you as good at what you do now, as when you were 20?
Posted on 5/19/11 at 9:01 am to Ace Midnight
quote:Those who bash either have an agenda, or aren't familiar with this publication. edit: That's Records, page 139 of Media Guide for lazy fingered folk.
the Jordan bashing is over-the-top for a player who can still statistically be the winningest QB in LSU history.
Luckily for him, he has a year to improve his awful LSU career standings.
This post was edited on 5/19/11 at 9:15 am
Posted on 5/19/11 at 9:09 am to JBeam
quote:
it's not even close im taking Tyler.
Posted on 5/19/11 at 9:36 am to Tiger 79
quote:
I came in the thread supporting Herb Tyler, but the Jordan bashing is over-the-top for a player who can still statistically be the winningest QB in LSU history
His winning is a function of somehow being able to hold onto the starting qb position for 2+ years in an era of the 12 game regular season schedule and being surrounded by talent to compensate for him especially on the defensive side of the ball and special teams.
You put Herb Tyler,Rohan Davey,Matt Flynn,JaMarcus Russel..... in his place and I think easily you would see 5-7 more wins over a career to this point. More after this season.
Jefferson performed poor to horrific in 9 out of 13 games last year so again the winning is based on compensating for him not him contributing.
This post was edited on 5/19/11 at 9:49 am
Posted on 5/19/11 at 9:58 am to Mayhawman
quote:
JJ had a rough season last year, but is #10 in LSU career TD passes, as a Jr with 2.2 yrs PT.
He's #10 out of 10 LSU QBs in the passing era.
That's not saying much, since he has twice as many starts as some of the other QBs on the list.
quote:
1980-82 Alan Risher
1983-85 Jeff Wickersham
1986-89 Tommy Hodson
1992-95 Jamie Howard
1999-00 Josh Booty
2001 Rohan Davey
2003 Matt Mauck
2005-06 JaMarcus Russell
2007 Matt Flynn
Posted on 5/19/11 at 10:14 am to Rudy40
quote:Meaning LSU would be undefeated since late 2008 season, since JJ has participated in 7 losses.
5-7 more wins over a career
All losses his fault, and none of the wins he contributed to, of course . A dose of reality should be prescribed.
Posted on 5/19/11 at 10:30 am to RobbBobb
quote:
twice as many starts as some of the other QBs on the list.
I said:
quote:
2.2 yrs PT
1980-82 Alan Risher
1983-85 Jeff Wickersham
1986-89 Tommy Hodson
1992-95 Jamie Howard
1999-00 Josh Booty
2001 Rohan Davey
2003 Matt Mauck
2005-06 JaMarcus Russell
2007 Matt Flynn
'09-'10 Our most despised QB in recent memory--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He holds some single season records also.
I've never posted JJ was the best LSU QB, but he is far from the worst in my 40+ years of following LSU Football.
Posted on 5/19/11 at 10:40 am to Mayhawman
quote:
He holds some single season records also
having the most sacks in a yr is not something to boast about
Posted on 5/19/11 at 11:09 am to Mayhawman
quote:
but he is far from the worst in my 40+ years of following LSU Football.
In my 35+ years as an LSU fan, JJ is most certainly the worst I've seen. His personal and team offensive rankings can attest to that fact.
Matt Flynn - BCS MVP
Jamarcus Russell - #1 draft pick
Marcus Randall - "The Bluegrass Miracle", 2005 Senior Gridiron Classic in Orlando where he was named MVP
Rohan Davey - greatest passing performance in LSU history in a 528-yard effort beating Alabama
Josh Booty - All SEC
Herb Tyler - pacing the Tigers to a 28-21 upset of No. 1 ranked Florida in 1997, beating a No. 1 ranked team in the country for the first time in program history. His 40 career TD passes also ranks No. 3 in Tiger history
Jamie Howard - 6,158 yards; 34 TDs
Chad Loup - school record for consecutive completions set against Arkansas in 1993.
Tommy Hodson - Tigers’ all-time leading passer, Hodson threw for 9,115 yards during his career
Jeff Wickersham - completed 58.4% of his passes for 6,921 yards, which at the time were both the 3rd best performances in Southeastern Conference (SEC) history
Alan Risher - 4,600 yards; 31 TDS
Posted on 5/19/11 at 11:24 am to TIsuGGER
quote:
5-7 more wins over a career
The quote was 5-7 wins and if you go back and look at all 7 it is definitely possible a Davey,Russell,Flynn or Mauck to name a few recent ones could have won them with good to excellent qb play which we didnt get from JJ. Not to mention that one of them could have put possibly put us in the SEC champ game this past year and a shot at the national title game.
While he may not be the worst LSU qb to play in a game in the last 40+ years (Sparacino, Melvin Hill) I have been watching them play he definitely would be the worst to start an entire season not to mention start 2 seasons.
This post was edited on 5/19/11 at 11:42 am
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