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re: From NCAA rules: Ball possession definition

Posted on 11/25/18 at 6:11 pm to
Posted by wil
Member since Nov 2006
654 posts
Posted on 11/25/18 at 6:11 pm to
I dont know but when a qb rb or wr does it is listed as a fumble. He fumbled the ball. Are you saying he didn’t fumble the ball? When Matt Ryan fumbled against the Saints Thurs and then recovered it it was called a fumble. Are you saying that when the ball was lying on the ground and he wasn’t touching it that he still had possession. That isn’t what the rule I got from the NCAA says possession is.
Posted by colbyjackcheese
S'port
Member since Aug 2018
580 posts
Posted on 11/25/18 at 6:33 pm to
So Giles punt was not a fumble?? He touched it and he was in mid dive??
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
138911 posts
Posted on 11/25/18 at 6:36 pm to
If Mond's fumble pick-pick up that nullified Delpit's interception was possession then Sternberger's catch/fumble should have been possession too.

Posted by GetmorewithLes
UK Basketball Fan
Member since Jan 2011
22237 posts
Posted on 11/25/18 at 6:44 pm to
quote:

All this nonsense about the knee touching the ground is absurd.


My point on this is that the replay was not conclusive enough to determine if his knee was actually on the ground. The ruling on the field was an interception. Therefore not enough evidence to overturn.

Also watch Mond's actions on the play. He never acted like he touched the ground like a "Oh did they see that?"
Posted by wil
Member since Nov 2006
654 posts
Posted on 11/25/18 at 6:48 pm to
You totally right. Some people are confusing a team possessing the ball with a player possessing a ball. The best way to look at it is this. Before the snap the ball was lying on the ground. AM had possession but no player had possession. When a ball is fumbled out of bounds. The ball goes to the last team for which a player LAST HAD possession. This acknowledges that at the time the ball went out of bounds no player had possession Possession by a team and by a player are not the same. Their QB lost possession and had not reestablished possession when his knee was down. A and M had posssession the whole time. But the two are totally different. Bottom line is the refs blew it.
Posted by GetmorewithLes
UK Basketball Fan
Member since Jan 2011
22237 posts
Posted on 11/25/18 at 6:52 pm to
quote:

uh, I hate to break the bad news to you, but Mond was the ONLY person to have possession.


Mond never had possession. He missed the shotgun snap. It hit his hand but he never had it until he scooped it off the ground. Many people believe this to have been after his knee was off the ground.

And to my point above. Prove to anyone beyond a shadow of a doubt that his knee actually hit the ground. In another post where the picture of him initially touching the ball was blown up you could clearly see the entire outline of Mond's knee. His shoe on the other hand was 1-2" deep in the grass... If you cant see beyond the shadow of doubt that he did touch the ground then you cant overrule the call on the field of an interception.
Posted by FelicianaTigerfan
Comanche County
Member since Aug 2009
26059 posts
Posted on 11/25/18 at 7:30 pm to
Funny how they ruled that as a possession while his knee was down but then ruled the receiver didn’t have possession on a later call
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 11/25/18 at 9:08 pm to
quote:

AM had possession but no player had possession
the way you are describing it is not true

quote:

When a ball is fumbled out of bounds. The ball goes to the last team for which a player LAST HAD possession
exactly, LAST had possession. meaning a team had it, lost it and regained it because of the out of bounds rule. you're making it sound like they had "possession" the whole time which is not right

quote:

A and M had posssession the whole time
semantics
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 11/25/18 at 9:09 pm to
quote:

He missed the shotgun snap
exactly. otherwise known as "live ball" meaning the next player to GRASP the ball has "possession." same thing after a kickoff past 10 yards
Posted by lctiger
Member since Oct 2003
3432 posts
Posted on 11/25/18 at 9:17 pm to
So when there is a bad snap And the qb runs for the ball he can just slide and touch the ball while on ground and the play is over as soon as he touches it. Got it
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 11/25/18 at 9:23 pm to
not at all what i said. but it is a fact that when the ball is snapped, it is a live ball. if the offense does not gain possession, the defense can. it's not a dead ball like on a punt.

this was in response to the idea that even though mond didn't have possession, which he didn't, a&m still had "possession." incorrect. it's a live ball. whoever gets it first, has possession. mond never possessed the ball prior to his knee going down. you can't just touch the ball with your fingernail and "possess" it. if that's the case, officials have been calling fumbles wrong for 100 years.
Posted by jp4lsu
Member since Sep 2016
6339 posts
Posted on 11/25/18 at 9:28 pm to
I was puzzled last night with the announcer because the ball was not on the ground when the knee touched.

So I just watched it again...Mond had the.ball grasped in his right hand when his knee touched. The question then is having the ball grasped with one hand is possession then it is the correct cal, which I think was right.

That doesn't bother as much as them refusing to review an obvious fumble which wasn't even as close of a call as the Mond snap. That is what really ticked me off.
Posted by wil
Member since Nov 2006
654 posts
Posted on 11/25/18 at 11:02 pm to
Last possession does not mean a team had it, lost it, and regained it. A player fumbles out of bounds: he had posssession and lost it. He never regained it. And the semantics is important. The semantics of the rules is what they mean. The A and M QB fumbled and based on the definition (semantics) of the NCAA rule for possession, he did not have possession when his knee touched the ground. Again, if putting your fingers or hand On a ball is possession, then the rules of football have been used wrong for years. When has putting your hand on a fumbled ball on the ground ever been ruled as possession. I’ve never once seen that. If a guy puts his hand ona fumbled ball and another player jumps on the ball and holds it with both hands, do they say the guy with just the hand on it recovered it?
Posted by lovinLSU
lafayette
Member since Nov 2007
14558 posts
Posted on 11/25/18 at 11:53 pm to
quote:

Also watch Mond's actions on the play. He never acted like he touched the ground like a "Oh did they see that?"
...it sure took the ref’s long enough to blow the play dead after he retained possession, got up and threw the interception, and Delpit was running towards the goaline....I don’t even think the ref’s even knew what the frick just happened....
Posted by WV Sage
Ripley, WV
Member since Nov 2016
228 posts
Posted on 11/25/18 at 11:59 pm to
The catch ruling was the real snafu....Totally wrong... it was a catch and a fumble
Posted by BayouBengal99
Crowley
Member since Oct 2007
9310 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 1:12 am to
Y'all think this is messed up look at the ruling for a spiked ball at the end of a game. It clearly says that if the clock hits zero in the field of play then the game is over. What's worse is that A&M had no timeouts so how do the refs call time for them to review it with zero time left and then put a second back on the clock for them to all regroup, calm down and run another play without having to hurry?

In live action the clock could have ran out anyway but by giving this opportunity it takes away that chance of them messing it all up. It's a total crock of shite. No way should they have been allotted this extra time with no timeouts left. The fumble called incomplete was just a cherry on top. It looked like fumble in real time and def in slow motion. Think about it like this, if Delpit doesn't hit him perfectly, which he did bc he's an All American Safety playing for LSU, would he have caught that ball and went in for a score? Damn right he would have. He was obviously turning to the endzone bc he knew he had that ball firmly in his hands and THEN Delpit comes flying in to knock it out. Another huge play by the LSU defense just ignored by the SEC. Frick these clowns man. I'm sick of being treated like this in the conference we helped take to this level. Without LSU this conference would likely be just another conference. Let them butt frick A&M every year, they won't mind one bit.

We can move into the ACC or Big 12. They would gladly take all the money LSU brings to the table. Basketball is getting going now too so all our big 3 sports will be top 25 material. Not to mention our gymnastics, golf and track teams. Even our Womans teams are pretty darn good. Anyone would be happy to have our ratings added to their conference. The SEC would take a huge loss without LSU. Frick these MFers. It might even the odds of the power conferences some. Monetary and on the field.
Posted by Dead End
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2013
21237 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 2:08 am to
quote:


I just want to hear it from the horse's mouth (REC) that touching the ball was a possession, but catching it with 3 steps isn't....
Posted by doc24
franklinton
Member since Dec 2007
59 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 5:30 am to
What about the fake field goal? Isn’t the holder’s knee on the ground before he tosses to the kicker or throws a pass?
Posted by themunch
bottom of the list
Member since Jan 2007
71342 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 6:43 am to
Both of those plays ended the game. That is all we know as fact.
This post was edited on 11/26/18 at 6:45 am
Posted by bencoleman
RIP 7/19
Member since Feb 2009
37887 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 7:01 am to
I hope that officiating crew is never allowed in Baton Rouge. It wouldn't be the first crew that was told they're not welcome.
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