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Message
re: Does our defense have issues with the zone-read option?
Posted on 7/25/11 at 8:19 pm to Kid Charlemagne
Posted on 7/25/11 at 8:19 pm to Kid Charlemagne
I honestly believe that LSU will handle Oregon easily. And I'm not just blowing smoke. It's going to be like VaTech in '07.
2
Posted on 7/25/11 at 8:22 pm to MontanaTiger
Their QB isn't 255lbs of muscle with a 4.4 speed.
Posted on 7/25/11 at 8:25 pm to MontanaTiger
More like Arizona 2003....PAC-10 and all, u know?
Posted on 7/25/11 at 8:46 pm to Bosethus68
Kid Charlemagne from Oregon I see what you see. Last year we lost two game. One to Auburn and one to Arkansas. Read option was a big part of both of those offenses.
I just hope yall (you guys for yankees) aren't as good at it as yall were last year and I hope our coaches have fixed/prepared our Defense better for it this year. I believe both to be true.
I just hope yall (you guys for yankees) aren't as good at it as yall were last year and I hope our coaches have fixed/prepared our Defense better for it this year. I believe both to be true.
Posted on 7/25/11 at 9:06 pm to Kid Charlemagne
Hats off to you and your fine program, and let me just say that I'm pulling for your Ducks to kick the crap out of USC.
In my view, the LSU defense was fine; the LSU special teams were fine; the LSU offense couldn't move the chains because of a totally inconsistent passing game.
The defense was on the field too much and got sloppy. Period.
With a consistent passing game from senior gbs, experienced receivers, a veteran line and the benefits arising from 4-6 rbs with plus stuff, we will sustain drives and score more efficiently.
I predict that at the end of the day we will be a top 10-20 offense and a top 10-20 defense. This should be enough to get us a BCS birth.
Then again, the SEC delights in proving fans wrong. Suffice it to say that I hope for great things from this group of Tigers.
In my view, the LSU defense was fine; the LSU special teams were fine; the LSU offense couldn't move the chains because of a totally inconsistent passing game.
The defense was on the field too much and got sloppy. Period.
With a consistent passing game from senior gbs, experienced receivers, a veteran line and the benefits arising from 4-6 rbs with plus stuff, we will sustain drives and score more efficiently.
I predict that at the end of the day we will be a top 10-20 offense and a top 10-20 defense. This should be enough to get us a BCS birth.
Then again, the SEC delights in proving fans wrong. Suffice it to say that I hope for great things from this group of Tigers.
Posted on 7/25/11 at 9:31 pm to hellboy
Actually, the triple option and the zro are quite similar in terms of how to defend it. With the bubble screen off of the zro it is exactly the same thing. You have a dive, a qb, and a pitch. What worries me much more are the "wildcattish" plays that compliment the zro. We dont see a whole lot of that down here. Auburn did it last year but everyone knows why their offense was difficult to stop and oregon doesn't have him.
Posted on 7/25/11 at 9:36 pm to bengaltygers
You sound like you are a football coach or something!
Posted on 7/25/11 at 9:41 pm to GeorgeTheGreek
quote:
You sound like you are a football coach or something!
Football is a simple game complicated by coaches!
Posted on 7/25/11 at 10:13 pm to BigEdLSU
quote:...second only to incredible calves!
...elite hips.
Posted on 7/25/11 at 11:22 pm to CamdenTiger
quote:
If our D-line shows up, it will be a long day for Oregon.
Honestly, all you need is for the LSU defensive tackles to have monster games and just consistently blow up our guards and center (which is very likely). If that happens, it will really, really, really put a halt to all of our running attack. Without a running threat, our chances of winning are slim to none.
This post was edited on 7/25/11 at 11:24 pm
Posted on 7/25/11 at 11:43 pm to Hired Gun
We definitely do. The main reason that I witnessed, as did a previous poster, was that our defensive ends crash to the running back on both sides because they are fast and believe they can catch him. That gets us screwed when the QB pulls the ball.
If Chief can get Mingo and the rest of the DE corps to chill out and quit trying to eat everyone they THINK has the ball, and get them to play it the right way, there is no way that any read option attack will gain a foothold against us.
This is why Newton and Masoli gashed us last year. Once the defensive ends crash, the QB can get into the secondary and beyond easily because it is then on the LB's to get off of their blocks, which is easier said than done. Stopping the read option, in my opinion, starts and ends with the DE's.
If Chief can get Mingo and the rest of the DE corps to chill out and quit trying to eat everyone they THINK has the ball, and get them to play it the right way, there is no way that any read option attack will gain a foothold against us.
This is why Newton and Masoli gashed us last year. Once the defensive ends crash, the QB can get into the secondary and beyond easily because it is then on the LB's to get off of their blocks, which is easier said than done. Stopping the read option, in my opinion, starts and ends with the DE's.
Posted on 7/26/11 at 6:44 am to bengaltygers
quote:
Actually, the triple option and the zro are quite similar in terms of how to defend it. With the bubble screen off of the zro it is exactly the same thing. You have a dive, a qb, and a pitch. What worries me much more are the "wildcattish" plays that compliment the zro. We dont see a whole lot of that down here. Auburn did it last year but everyone knows why their offense was difficult to stop and oregon doesn't have him.
Wow, way to simplify an entire offensive system. There's so much more to any triple option than a dive, keep, and pitch. Are you veer blocking it? Are you BOB blocking it? Is it a counter, speed, load or lead?
And comparing Oregon's offense to Ga Tech's triple because they bubble off it and theoretically have three options is a pretty weak connection. The timing and spacing of the offenses are completely different.
They're really not very comparable at all.
Posted on 7/26/11 at 7:16 am to FootballNostradamus
Daily Rant Trivia Question
Why doesn't the zone read work in the NFL?
Why doesn't the zone read work in the NFL?
Posted on 7/26/11 at 7:20 am to FootballNostradamus
Our defense doesn't have issues with the read option. Auburn and Ole Miss threw us off balance last year with plays that any offensive scheme could have executed. The actual read-option was never hard to stop for LSU. Masoli was having the game of his life and completed quite a few passes, but the reason Auburn and any offense might have had a lot of yards against our defense is quite purposeful on the part of Chavis's play calling.
1. Chavis believes the defense should be a weapon, not a shield, thus he blitzes ALOT and plays aggressive (very tight) zone coverage behind it trying to create turnovers (especially with our offensive production last year, think of the games we won because of defense).
2. The zone read, which is nothing like a traditional option attack upfront, is just like an option attack in that you must be able to stay home and play base coverage to stop it. If you have to run blitz because of weak links in your personel, then big plays will occur.
3. LSU blitzes anyways, because they want turnovers, but they start to play a little more conservatively when the ball gets on their side of the 50 and thus you have teams with a lot of yardage and not a lot of points.
To make a long story short, it appears that lsu is weak against option offenses (spread ones), because LSU tries to get turnovers until the offense begins approaching scoring position, then they tighten up and go for the stop.
a.) Offensive lineman can't hold defensive lineman long enough for that play to develop.
b.) Not many teams want's their NFL QB taking hits from a slow developing QB keeper.
c.) The spread sets that zone reads are most effective in aren't really effective personel groupings to have on the field in the NFL for every down situations.
1. Chavis believes the defense should be a weapon, not a shield, thus he blitzes ALOT and plays aggressive (very tight) zone coverage behind it trying to create turnovers (especially with our offensive production last year, think of the games we won because of defense).
2. The zone read, which is nothing like a traditional option attack upfront, is just like an option attack in that you must be able to stay home and play base coverage to stop it. If you have to run blitz because of weak links in your personel, then big plays will occur.
3. LSU blitzes anyways, because they want turnovers, but they start to play a little more conservatively when the ball gets on their side of the 50 and thus you have teams with a lot of yardage and not a lot of points.
To make a long story short, it appears that lsu is weak against option offenses (spread ones), because LSU tries to get turnovers until the offense begins approaching scoring position, then they tighten up and go for the stop.
quote:
Why doesn't the zone read work in the NFL?
a.) Offensive lineman can't hold defensive lineman long enough for that play to develop.
b.) Not many teams want's their NFL QB taking hits from a slow developing QB keeper.
c.) The spread sets that zone reads are most effective in aren't really effective personel groupings to have on the field in the NFL for every down situations.
This post was edited on 7/26/11 at 7:25 am
Posted on 7/26/11 at 7:53 am to BigEdLSU
quote:
Daily Rant Trivia Question
Why doesn't the zone read work in the NFL?
The zone read would work fine in the NFL if any head coach and front office was dumb enough to open their franchise quarterback up to hits from guys like Julius Peppers, Dwight Freeney, Demarcus Ware and others for an entire season.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again; quarterback salaries and the salary cap are the only reason you don’t see the option in the NFL. It’s simply not a fiscally responsible decision to constantly put your highest paid player in harms way.
Any option system, however, would absolutely work in the NFL. The success teams have had with the Wildcat, which has almost zero threat of a passing attack, is proof of this.
Posted on 7/26/11 at 7:56 am to BigEdLSU
First off, Auburn was a well balanced offense that moved the ball on everyone they played. Unfortunatley, Ole Miss moved the ball at will on us too, but remember Brandon Taylor was out during the Ole Miss game. The defense was much better with him in. I think Hatcher played in his place. Might be why Ole Miss was moving the ball at will against us.
That said I really believe Miles has issues stopping the read option play, why? Because we had the same problems with Pelini at DC. We were able to stop traditional offenses with no problem, but option-read plays we had lots of problems with.
The NFL is a much faster game...and its a slow executing play...also in college, you have maybe 2 players fast enough on defense to make the NFL who will stop that play. In the NFL, everyone on defense is fast enough to stop that play. That's why you see more pocket passers in the NFL, a speedy QB is useless when everyone on defense can catch him.
That said I really believe Miles has issues stopping the read option play, why? Because we had the same problems with Pelini at DC. We were able to stop traditional offenses with no problem, but option-read plays we had lots of problems with.
quote:
Why doesn't the zone read work in the NFL?
The NFL is a much faster game...and its a slow executing play...also in college, you have maybe 2 players fast enough on defense to make the NFL who will stop that play. In the NFL, everyone on defense is fast enough to stop that play. That's why you see more pocket passers in the NFL, a speedy QB is useless when everyone on defense can catch him.
Posted on 7/26/11 at 8:12 am to jtran1988
quote:
Their QB isn't 255lbs of muscle with a 4.4 speed.
Not to mention Oregon is replacing their entire o-line.
Posted on 7/26/11 at 8:21 am to a want
Maybe I'm off base. I think it also has something to do with NFL guys can diagnose and react to specific blocking schemes and identify the play much faster than the younger guys in college. I'm hoping with the extra practice time, our guys can do something similar.
Don't you think the mental side of things is very important to defending this?
Don't you think the mental side of things is very important to defending this?
Posted on 7/26/11 at 8:23 am to Kid Charlemagne
quote:
Well, the Auburn and Ole Miss games do stick out. Honestly, I think your defensive ends get out of position at times and the rest of the team struggles to get off blocks and has sloppy arm tackling against these types of offenses. But, with this much time to prepare, who knows? It's going to be a great game.
what you don't know is our starting d/e montgomery was hurt during those games. mingo, a freshman was crashing in.
secondly, our d.c. coached a tenn and held up well against florida's read option. He's done well against AU prior to cam newton.
lastly, i think the read option is only as effective as the qb running it. cam newton, and masoli, (who you are familiar with) were exceptional runners who broke tackles. We'll have to see if d. thomas is as strong and as good at running as those two.
Posted on 7/26/11 at 8:32 am to Chimlim
quote:
remember Brandon Taylor was out during the Ole Miss game. The defense was much better with him in. I think Hatcher played in his place.
Reid started after Taylor went down. Hatcher was the starting FS all yr (except when hurt to start the yr) to Taylor's SS.
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