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Message
re: Crowton with a real QB
Posted on 12/21/10 at 9:53 am to etm512
Posted on 12/21/10 at 9:53 am to etm512
did have the number 50 ranked scoring offense.
the only stat that matters. hard to get a lot of yards with a defense and special teams that sets you up on at least the 40 damn near every kickoff or punt.
the offense at times looked great, at times it looked like trash. also has a lot to do with the sec.
the only stat that matters. hard to get a lot of yards with a defense and special teams that sets you up on at least the 40 damn near every kickoff or punt.
the offense at times looked great, at times it looked like trash. also has a lot to do with the sec.
1
Posted on 12/21/10 at 9:53 am to TheDoc
quote:
I'll take a bet with anyone that if crowton sticks around (hopefully not) he'll have LSU right back in the 80's-100's ranked in offense.
And people will say Mettenberger is just not an SEC caliber QB
Posted on 12/21/10 at 9:55 am to jrich11
quote:
the offense at times looked great, at times it looked like trash. also has a lot to do with the sec.
Out of the 12 games LSU played, the offense looked like total dog shite in 10.5 of them. The offense actually played well in 1.5 games. Is that really enough to keep Crowton?
Posted on 12/21/10 at 10:12 am to etm512
quote:
You really only read and remember certain parts of certain posts, don't you?
Todd's 08 stats (50/50 split) - 900 yds, 55.1%, 5 TD, 6 INT, 106.6 Rating
Todd's 09 stats - 2600 yds, 60.4%, 22 TD, 6 INT, 145.7 Rating
So that's an increase in completion percentage, an increase in yards per game, and he threw 17 more TDs with the same amount of INTs. Also a pretty substantial increase in passer rating. But yeah, you're right, Malzahn shouldn't get credit for any of that since he only played 50% of the snaps the previous year. If this is your idea of "marginal improvement", I would love to see your standards for good improvement.
do you know what todd would have thrown for in his jr season had he not split time? i don't even think he got to play in the first three games in 2008. how do you know or project what he could or would have done had he not split time. the only accurate thing you can compare is comp % and maybe passing rating. however, when you know you are the starter, you're getting all the reps in practice, you are developing timing with the wr's, you're seeing the defense more. all this gives you an advantage over splitting time.
secondly, there are more factors in both seasons other than o.c., 2008 au was converting from I formation to spread. they had to fire the o.c. in the middle of the season, couldn't that have had an effect?
couldn't a sophmore offensive line maturing into a jr offensive line have something to do with it? there is more to all this than one thing. you guy's are making this way to simple.
lastly, i never said malzahn shouldn't get credit. check out my post before you accuse me of not remembering.
This post was edited on 12/21/10 at 10:19 am
Posted on 12/21/10 at 10:34 am to dos crystal
So you are agreeing that a new OC with a new scheme can in fact improve an offense with the same marginal QB from the previous year?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Posted on 12/21/10 at 11:02 am to Icansee4miles
Guess no one wants to take my bet
Posted on 12/21/10 at 11:07 am to etm512
quote:
So you are agreeing that a new OC with a new scheme can in fact improve an offense with the same marginal QB from the previous year?
yes. see lsu 08 defense to 09. with that said, i'm not sure the offense would not improve w/o a change in offensive coaching/scheme ect.
as stated in a prior post. i don't think lsu's offensive struggles are "all" crowton as some tend state. i think attrition in the o-line zamal thomas, singleton, matt allen, loadholt, jarvis jones, ect played a big part. not having a full back played a part. ryan p dismissal had a part. lee and jefferson having to play before they should have, played a part. them not being the qb's we thought they would be, played part. coaching played a part. injuries played a part. wr's not catching the ball played a part.
i do think, with a experienced offensive line, solid full back, and a good qb. crowton/lsu offensive will be good again. it's setting up that way for next year. we should have an experienced o-line that improved from last to this year. we should have a full back for the first time in two years. if Mett is good or jordan improves, things can be drastically different.
it's the same deal with greg davis. i don't think he forgot offense/football in one year. these guy's know the game. it's up to them and the other coaches to have the peaces to play with. w/o the peaces, there is only so much they can do.
Posted on 12/21/10 at 11:12 am to TheDoc
quote:
Guess no one wants to take my bet
Any reasonable fair and well-thought out bet has takers. This (no takers) says more about you and your bet than anyone else.
Posted on 12/21/10 at 11:19 am to dos crystal
quote:
yes. see lsu 08 defense to 09. with that said, i'm not sure the offense would not improve w/o a change in offensive coaching/scheme ect.
as stated in a prior post. i don't think lsu's offensive struggles are "all" crowton as some tend state. i think attrition in the o-line zamal thomas, singleton, matt allen, loadholt, jarvis jones, ect played a big part. not having a full back played a part. ryan p dismissal had a part. lee and jefferson having to play before they should have, played a part. them not being the qb's we thought they would be, played part. coaching played a part. injuries played a part. wr's not catching the ball played a part.
i do think, with a experienced offensive line, solid full back, and a good qb. crowton/lsu offensive will be good again. it's setting up that way for next year. we should have an experienced o-line that improved from last to this year. we should have a full back for the first time in two years. if Mett is good or jordan improves, things can be drastically different.
it's the same deal with greg davis. i don't think he forgot offense/football in one year. these guy's know the game. it's up to them and the other coaches to have the peaces to play with. w/o the peaces, there is only so much they can do.
I agree and everyone else does that all of the other stuff had an impact on the offense as well. You would be an idiot not to. But I think what you are failing to realize is that this isn't the first time this has happened with a GC coached offense. It has become a pattern. If this was GC's first stint as an OC, I would tend to be a little more lenient on him. However, you can't ignore his history. His offenses get worse with time and improve after his departure and he can't coach a QB to save his life.
Posted on 12/21/10 at 11:22 am to therocketscientist
quote:
Any reasonable fair and well-thought out bet has takers. This (no takers) says more about you and your bet than anyone else.
It's hilarious that no one would bet that the offense will be better that 80th in 2011
If that doesnt say something about how bad crowton is, I don't know what will.
Posted on 12/21/10 at 12:06 pm to TheDoc
quote:
If that doesnt say something about how bad crowton is, I don't know what will.
Let me make this clear for you:
JJ is a below average SEC QB.
Crowton is, at best, an average OC.
Crowton with a reasonable QB and strong overall offensive talent is good enough to win a BCSNC
Crowton with JJ is an utter disaster.
Miles loves JJ incessantly and is highly likley to give him the starting role even if Mett out performs him in spring ball.
As such, unless Miles benches a 3-year starting Sr Qb who he loves AND fires Crowton, your bet is ridiculous.
Your wager did not qualify that one or both of this horrendous pair (JJ + Crowton) would be gone, so no one disagrees that the offense will once again be weak and lowly ranked in 2011.
If you said that Mett would start the season and play somewhat close to his potential, then people would line up to take your bet with or without Crowton. If Mett is the QB and Crowton is gone, all the better.
Make such a wager, and you'll get plenty of takers.
It is that fricken simple.
Posted on 12/21/10 at 12:24 pm to dos crystal
quote:
do think, with a experienced offensive line, solid full back, and a good qb. crowton/lsu offensive will be good again
Every coordinator making 500k a year would be expected to do well with this combination.
The good coordinators get productivity even when the stars are not aligned, such as Chavis.
Wasn't everyone talking about how inexperienced and small the D would be this year? Yes, they were. And what happened? Chavis put out a better product than last season.
Posted on 12/21/10 at 12:42 pm to etm512
quote:
agree and everyone else does that all of the other stuff had an impact on the offense as well. You would be an idiot not to. But I think what you are failing to realize is that this isn't the first time this has happened with a GC coached offense. It has become a pattern. If this was GC's first stint as an OC, I would tend to be a little more lenient on him. However, you can't ignore his history. His offenses get worse with time and improve after his departure and he can't coach a QB to save his life.
no, i realize crowton's history. however, i looked closely at his history. he never stayed anywhere more than 3 or 4 years most times. what i concluded by looking at his history, and this is my issue with him, he's not a good recruiter. when he has the players, he does well. when those players leave, he's not as good.
the bears is a different enigma. if you look at his time there, he did well the first year, then didn't have the same qb/players the next. i call it the enigma because your g.m. is suppose to provide you with the players. the g.m. didn't.
tech, which most haters leave out of his stats, because he got better as time went on. he got tim rattay and the wr and he took off. now, i've read where people say he didn't develop rattay, he got him from j.c. ok then did malzahn develop cam? that's the coaches job to get the players that can run their system. both should get credit.
byu, he's the head coach, he inherits talent, does well with it. as his recruiting suffers, he's offense/team suffers.
oregon, he inherits a sr qb, experienced team, then he's got young qb/team. numbers decline
lsu, he inherits a sr qb/experienced team. he loses that qb and r.p., herman johnson, q johnson, helms, ect. he starts to decline.
here is what i'm saying. i think crowton is a good o.c. when has the players. (you can say that about most o.c's. i think he is a weak recruiter. (that's my issue) this is where jimbo did well (recruiting). so, if miles believes he can recruit and give the peaces to crowton, then fine. i think the offense will be fine if miles is successful doing that. however, if he is depending on crowton to recruit the peaces and he can't do it, then get rid of him.
it appears as though miles has taken over recruiting the qb position, he's getting him a full back, they are building the o-line. it appears as though miles is saying, i'll get him the peaces.
Posted on 12/21/10 at 12:52 pm to dos crystal
quote:
here is what i'm saying. i think crowton is a good o.c. when has the players. (you can say that about most o.c's. i think he is a weak recruiter. (that's my issue) this is where jimbo did well (recruiting). so, if miles believes he can recruit and give the peaces to crowton, then fine. i think the offense will be fine if miles is successful doing that. however, if he is depending on crowton to recruit the peaces and he can't do it, then get rid of him.
it appears as though miles has taken over recruiting the qb position, he's getting him a full back, they are building the o-line. it appears as though miles is saying, i'll get him the peaces.
He has the pieces, he just hasn't developed them. Which was the entire debate in this thread.
Should we pay Crowton 500k a year and have to hire someone else to develop/recruit all the talent he needs? No.
He has 3 five star WRs, is littered with 4 star RBs and OL, a dangerous tight end and 2 four star QBs.
Both QBs have enough talent to play at this level. I wish we could have seem Jimbo develop these QBs, cause they aren't being taught right now it appears.
Posted on 12/21/10 at 12:52 pm to MandevilleLSUTiger
quote:
Wasn't everyone talking about how inexperienced and small the D would be this year?
First of all, no. Many of us expected a better defense or at least equivalent to his 2009 first year D.
Also, If Chavis had either 1) two inferior interior linemen or 2) poor LB's, that would have been highly problematic for him, and the house of cards would have created a seive of a defense regardless of the strengths in the other areas.
A poor QB has that same effect on the offense.
Your argument is very misguided, as the talent on D did not have any one/prominant glaring deficiency as did the offense.
Posted on 12/21/10 at 12:57 pm to therocketscientist
quote:
Your argument is very misguided, as the talent on D did not have any one/prominant glaring deficiency as did the offense
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Going into the season (ie spring), there was no concern at outside LB or DL? And you knew Ken Adams was going to be good?
You might want to give credit to Chavis for getting Baker, Stefon, Brockers, and TM ready to play, as well as all the other inexperienced, unknown talents that contributed.
Talent was there on D, and Chavis gets the most out of it. Talent is there on O, and GC squanders it.
This post was edited on 12/21/10 at 12:58 pm
Posted on 12/21/10 at 12:58 pm to therocketscientist
But you did see an immediate improvement in the LB play when Chavis got here, correct?
Posted on 12/21/10 at 1:01 pm to MandevilleLSUTiger
quote:
He has the pieces,
Dude, if you have a poor QB, you do NOT have the pieces. NO WAY can you say that. LSU had one, and only one, weakness in our entire team, and that was the QB. Period. Problem is, without a good QB, you are not going to contend for a championship, and you are going to have a lot of 3-and-outs. Which is exactly what we got in 2009 and 2010.
This post was edited on 12/21/10 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 12/21/10 at 1:03 pm to therocketscientist
quote:
Dude, if you ahve a poor QB, you do NOT have the pieces
So it was just coincidence that our two fairly highly recruited QBs both ended up being busts I guess. It had nothing to do with someone not maximizing their potential. I guess you can believe that if you would like.
This post was edited on 12/21/10 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 12/21/10 at 1:04 pm to dos crystal
And what you left off is that the next year after he left every one of those jobs is that the offense immediately improved (not to mention in one case his average QB became a Heisman contender).
I don't think we ever really leaned on him to be a big recruiter. This is why we bring in the Frank Wilsons and BGs of the world. They have been and still are getting the parts. GC is resonsible for 1) coaching QBs and 2) getting those great parts the ball. He has failed at both IMO.
quote:
however, if he is depending on crowton to recruit the peaces and he can't do it, then get rid of him.
I don't think we ever really leaned on him to be a big recruiter. This is why we bring in the Frank Wilsons and BGs of the world. They have been and still are getting the parts. GC is resonsible for 1) coaching QBs and 2) getting those great parts the ball. He has failed at both IMO.
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