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Posted on 9/15/15 at 1:34 pm to trooploop
Don't underestimate the success of LSU's recent wide receivers and their rapid adjustment to the NFL on playing in an NFL-style system either.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 1:35 pm to Salmon
quote:
Harris HS offense was nothing like LSUs offense, so the learning curve was much higher
No kidding... in over 20 games his jr/sr year, I saw him go under center maybe 5 times in total.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 1:37 pm to Salmon
quote:
We will have LF next year
By then ... we may not actually need to pass.
Defenders will probably just get out of the way.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 1:48 pm to Salmon
Spread offenses and playing against ACC defenses
Posted on 9/15/15 at 2:02 pm to navy
Malik Zaire was a FROSH last year.
He was a sophomore.
Redshirt sophomore.
Point taken though, young guys can have success.
Salmon's link of the DT QBs from 2014 actually surprised me. I don't see a lot of names that scream "current impact starter at a major program."
Admittedly, I don't watch a ton of college ball outside of the SEC, but for example:
#1 and #3 have been covered.
#2- DT QB Jerrod Heard isn't currently the starter at Texas, though he may be soon.
#4- Justice Hansen transferred from OU to Butler Community College in Kansas
#5- Morgan Mahalak is I guess 3rd on the depth chart for Oregon.
Pro Style QB list in '14 is similar:
#1- Kyle Allen A&M starter
#2- Will Grier UF starter
#3- Keller Chryst 3rd at Stanford
#4- David Cornwell 5th at Bama
#5- Jacob Park transferred from UGA to Navarro College
On both lists 2/5 have made the jump to starter by the beginning of their second year on campus. I would say only 1 of those 4 has been exceptional to date, though the other 3 seem pretty strong.
The takeaway is what we already knew. It's extremely difficult to be a successful college QB, particularly as a first or second year player, guys get better with age and experience. Watson, Zaire, Rosen are exceptions as someone else said.
To answer the OP, while the scheme at LSU appears to be difficult for QBs to pick up and defenses in the SEC don't do anyone any favors, I agree with your confusion. I see young QBs succeeding and think "my god if we could get that kind of play out of our guy..."
No one argues Harris has the talent, here's to him takes the next step on Saturday.
He was a sophomore.
quote:
Cardale Jones was a SOPH.
Redshirt sophomore.
Point taken though, young guys can have success.
Salmon's link of the DT QBs from 2014 actually surprised me. I don't see a lot of names that scream "current impact starter at a major program."
Admittedly, I don't watch a ton of college ball outside of the SEC, but for example:
#1 and #3 have been covered.
#2- DT QB Jerrod Heard isn't currently the starter at Texas, though he may be soon.
#4- Justice Hansen transferred from OU to Butler Community College in Kansas
#5- Morgan Mahalak is I guess 3rd on the depth chart for Oregon.
Pro Style QB list in '14 is similar:
#1- Kyle Allen A&M starter
#2- Will Grier UF starter
#3- Keller Chryst 3rd at Stanford
#4- David Cornwell 5th at Bama
#5- Jacob Park transferred from UGA to Navarro College
On both lists 2/5 have made the jump to starter by the beginning of their second year on campus. I would say only 1 of those 4 has been exceptional to date, though the other 3 seem pretty strong.
The takeaway is what we already knew. It's extremely difficult to be a successful college QB, particularly as a first or second year player, guys get better with age and experience. Watson, Zaire, Rosen are exceptions as someone else said.
To answer the OP, while the scheme at LSU appears to be difficult for QBs to pick up and defenses in the SEC don't do anyone any favors, I agree with your confusion. I see young QBs succeeding and think "my god if we could get that kind of play out of our guy..."
No one argues Harris has the talent, here's to him takes the next step on Saturday.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 2:11 pm to MF Doom
quote:
You're right.
No wonder Mett beat out Mariota for the starting spot
He was named the starter before he ever landed in Nashville, but he looks great so far.
Mett has looked a lot better than Johnny...
Posted on 9/15/15 at 2:17 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
Mett has looked a lot better than Johnny...
To be fair ... Johnny looked somewhat improved this past weekend.
It'll be hard to tell ... his team is so bad.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 2:46 pm to navy
Yes. Junior season or 3 years removed from high school
Posted on 9/15/15 at 3:14 pm to Salmon
quote:
imagine I could list a lot more freshmen and sophmore QBs that sucked it up than you could list that excelled
Brett Hundley
Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota
Aaron Murray
Johnny Manziel
Tim Tebow
Sam Bradford
Colt McCoy
Brad Kaaya
Anu Solomon
JT Barrett
Deshaun Watson
Baker Mayfield
Colin Kaepernick
RG3
Andrew Luck
Everett Golson
James Franklin
Christian Hackenberg
Patrick Mahomes
Jared Goff
John O'korn
Nate Sudfield
Greg Ward Jr
Taysom Hill (still counts as he was a freshman when he first started playing)
Chuckie Keeton
Kyle Allen
There are more, but I'm tired.
Some guys from this year. Will Grier, Josh Rosen and Jake Browning.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 3:41 pm to navy
quote:
by navy
quote:
Sophomore this year bro can't
Guess I haven't kept track of those rules.
So you clearly don't watch football. Your points are now all irrelevant. Wish we would've known this sooner to save us time.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 3:44 pm to navy
It is game one of the season on the road vs a team that beat us last season.
He will have tremendous numbers this season!
He will have tremendous numbers this season!
Posted on 9/15/15 at 5:24 pm to Datbayoubengal
quote:
quote: imagine I could list a lot more freshmen and sophmore QBs that sucked it up than you could list that excelled Brett Hundley Jameis Winston Marcus Mariota Aaron Murray Johnny Manziel Tim Tebow Sam Bradford Colt McCoy Brad Kaaya Anu Solomon JT Barrett Deshaun Watson Baker Mayfield Colin Kaepernick RG3 Andrew Luck Everett Golson James Franklin Christian Hackenberg Patrick Mahomes Jared Goff John O'korn Nate Sudfield Greg Ward Jr Taysom Hill (still counts as he was a freshman when he first started playing) Chuckie Keeton Kyle Allen There are more, but I'm tired. Some guys from this year. Will Grier, Josh Rosen and Jake Browning.
Excellent post. These, and there are many others, are ample examples that young and/or inexperienced QBs CAN play very well.
I've been beating this drum for quite awhile now. The whole "he's young" or "he's inexperienced" lines are just excuses. Flat out excuses.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 6:05 pm to navy
It's pretty simple. Chad Morris runs a spread offense and lsu runs a prostyle offense. The prostyle offense is,by far, the most complex offense in football. The job of a qb in a prostyle offense is far more complex than that of a spread qb. You also have to realize that there are very few high schools that run a prostyle offense since the spread offense allows you to just play your best athlete at qb because he isn't making a bunch of reads and he isnt learning a huge amount of formations and plays.
So lsu gets qbs from high school that have never taken a snap under center,never had to call a play in the huddle,and never had to go through progressions while doing a 3,5,or 7 step drop.
You have to realize that spread offenses at programs like Auburn and Oregon run the same exact play(zone read) 40-45% of the offensive snaps(this is what helps the offense to play at a very fast pace).
So in short,our offense asks the qb to do more at the line of scrimmage,to run more formations,and do things they didnt do in highschool while the spread offense is usually what a high school qb has been running since highschool.
So lsu gets qbs from high school that have never taken a snap under center,never had to call a play in the huddle,and never had to go through progressions while doing a 3,5,or 7 step drop.
You have to realize that spread offenses at programs like Auburn and Oregon run the same exact play(zone read) 40-45% of the offensive snaps(this is what helps the offense to play at a very fast pace).
So in short,our offense asks the qb to do more at the line of scrimmage,to run more formations,and do things they didnt do in highschool while the spread offense is usually what a high school qb has been running since highschool.
This post was edited on 9/15/15 at 6:06 pm
Posted on 9/15/15 at 6:08 pm to atltiger6487
quote:
I've been beating this drum for quite awhile now. The whole "he's young" or "he's inexperienced" lines are just excuses. Flat out excuses.
Are you serious?
No its not. It's common knowledge that qbs get better with EXPERIENCE in a offense. Thats not up for debate Especially a prostyle offense that most highschool qbs have never ran.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 6:10 pm to atltiger6487
quote:
only a sophomore" is just an excuse. Young QBs can, and do, play well. Manziel and Jameis were RS freshman, for crying out loud.
Holy shite. These are the outliers. Not the norm.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 6:56 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
It's common knowledge that qbs get better with EXPERIENCE in a offense. Thats not up for debate Especially a prostyle offense that most highschool qbs have never ran.
I NEVER said QBs don't get better with experience. Of course experience is good to have.
What I've been saying is that experience, while certainly helpful, isn't REQUIRED to have productive QB play. There are many young, inexperienced QBs who play very well. That's my point.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 7:00 pm to navy
tl;dr
Posted on 9/15/15 at 7:01 pm to atltiger6487
quote:
What I've been saying is that experience, while certainly helpful, isn't REQUIRED to have productive QB play. There are many young, inexperienced QBs who play very well. That's my point.
Here we go again...
Without going through the trouble of dissecting every name on that list, some of which I am admittedly unfamiliar with, the only name that stands out that has an offensive philosophy similar to what LSU runs is Aaron Murray. Whether LSU should run the pro-style in the face of a steeper learning curve is a legitimate matter for debate, but you're not comparing apples to apples when you compare the way we develop our quarterbacks with the way that Auburn, Oregon, and Ohio State do.
Jeremy Johnson is a pretty glaring example of this. The dude flat out cannot read defensive coverages and was called out for it multiple times this past weekend.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 7:02 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
So in short,our offense asks the qb to do more at the line of scrimmage,to run more formations,and do things they didnt do in highschool while the spread offense is usually what a high school qb has been running since highschool
What about Alabama - do they run an offense as complex (allegedly) as ours? Serious question.
Because their last two QBs had virtually no experience and played well.
Blake Sims (while a senior) had no meaningful snaps at QB prior to last year, and was only named the starter shortly before the first game. Oh, and he had a brand new system to learn under new OC Lane Kiffin. And he somehow led them to the playoffs.
And now Jake Coker. Small sample size so far, but he's playing well. Yes, he's old, but has only been at Bama for a year with virtually no playing experience.
So neither Sims nor Coker are "young" but they're both definitely "inexperienced" and in Sims case, he was learning an entirely new system, which I assume would qualify as a pro style offense.
How does Bama manage to get quality play from their inexperienced QBs in this complex system? Again, not a snotty question - I'm serious.
This post was edited on 9/15/15 at 7:06 pm
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