Bama personal foul clarification

But it was first and goal after the play when the hit occurred. How is it not 1st and goal from the 16?

Nobody in any of these threads has answered this adequately.

Here's what I've found. I don't agree with it, as it rewards the offender. It hinges on whether the ball was made ready for play or not when the foul occurs, and not just the fact that it was a dead ball foul. But it wasn't written with personal fouls in mind, as shown by the appendix example. I guess the call was correct by the rules after all

Rule 5

Foul Between Series
ARTICLE 7. a. The penalty for any dead-ball foul (including live-ball fouls treated as dead-ball fouls) that occurs after a series ends (me: applies here because 1st down/ ”new series” was established by the play) and before the ball is ready for play (me: also applies here) shall be completed before the line to gain is established. (me: Penalty is marked off, then the new line to gain is established. Line to gain established prior to foul is no longer relevant. This essentially rewards the offending team, and in this case gave an opportunity for an otherwise unachievable fresh set of downs at the 6)
b. The penalty for any dead-ball foul that occurs after the ball is ready for play (me: does not apply here)shall be completed after the line to gain is established (A.R. 5-2-7-I-V) (me: this scenario would have resulted in 1st and goal from the 16. But it’s virtually impossible for a personal foul to occur in this scenario, as each team is back on his own side).

Rule 5 Appendix

V. After Team A has made a first down (me: applies here and creates a “new series”), the umpire has placed the ball on the ground at the B-30. The referee waves the umpire away from the ball but before he signals the ball ready for play, snapper A55 snaps the ball (me: far more innocent than a personal foul, and there should be a distinction). RULING: Team A dead-ball foul for delay of game. Five-yard penalty,first and 10 at the B-35. NOTE: This is a foul between series (me: first down was made) in that it takes place before the ball is declared ready for the next series. Hence
it is first and 10, not first and 15 (Rules 4-1-1, 4-1-4) (me: apparently results in moving the line to gain, back with the ball. I don’t ever recall seeing this before, but apparently it happens from time to time).

Rulebook

above post is correct. bama's play resulted in a first down, a "new series". LSU's did not.

quote:

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RB runs to 1 yard line and first down. 72 hits Kwon late in the back. Is it really the rule that you back them up 15 yards and then it's 1st and 10? Post game said this and I'm assuming they are right, but that's a dipshit rule if thats the case.

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didn't the personal foul occur on the pass on the first play of OT which did give them a first down and goal at the 1 yard line. That being the case it seems it should remain first and goal . I s say a team gets a holding call at the 3 yard line and the ball is moved back to the 13 they don't get a first down by making it back to the 3 yard line?

Seems a lot mixed metaphors going on.

quote:

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Rule 5

Foul Between Series
ARTICLE 7. a. The penalty for any dead-ball foul (including live-ball fouls treated as dead-ball fouls) that occurs after a series ends (me: applies here because 1st down/ ”new series” was established by the play) and before the ball is ready for play (me: also applies here) shall be completed before the line to gain is established. (me: Penalty is marked off, then the new line to gain is established. Line to gain established prior to foul is no longer relevant. This essentially rewards the offending team, and in this case gave an opportunity for an otherwise unachievable fresh set of downs at the 6)
b. The penalty for any dead-ball foul that occurs after the ball is ready for play (me: does not apply here)shall be completed after the line to gain is established (A.R. 5-2-7-I-V) (me: this scenario would have resulted in 1st and goal from the 16. But it’s virtually impossible for a personal foul to occur in this scenario, as each team is back on his own side).

Rule 5 Appendix

V. After Team A has made a first down (me: applies here and creates a “new series”), the umpire has placed the ball on the ground at the B-30. The referee waves the umpire away from the ball but before he signals the ball ready for play, snapper A55 snaps the ball (me: far more innocent than a personal foul, and there should be a distinction). RULING: Team A dead-ball foul for delay of game. Five-yard penalty,first and 10 at the B-35. NOTE: This is a foul between series (me: first down was made) in that it takes place before the ball is declared ready for the next series. Hence
it is first and 10, not first and 15 (Rules 4-1-1, 4-1-4) (me: apparently results in moving the line to gain, back with the ball. I don’t ever recall seeing this before, but apparently it happens from time to time).

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So yes the rule was correctly called and yes this is the most ridiculous rule I've ever seen. At the very least there should be a sub-rule stating if it is first and goal and the penalty is called, it is still first and goal 15 yards from the spot of the foul/line-of-scrimmage achieved on the gain before the penalty. Completely different situation and should be judged as such. So basically if you want to put a dirty hit on somebody, do it after a first down. You will get backed up a little, but it's still first and ten so not much harm done.