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re: All-Time LSU Baseball Team
Posted on 4/18/18 at 2:37 pm to ProjectP2294
Posted on 4/18/18 at 2:37 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
The OF seems to be a little too heavy on recent players.
Yeah, for my money, Mike Koerner belongs on this list. Won a CWS and was a five-tool guy.
0
Posted on 4/18/18 at 3:00 pm to nicholastiger
quote:
Yeah, there was creatine and PED's in college game but not near as much as what was going on in MLB at the time. Swinging that aluminum created more offense than anything else
You're foolish if you truly believe this.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 3:07 pm to SaturdayTraditions
quote:Very foolish.
You're foolish if you truly believe this
Go back and watch the LSU vs Bama 1997 title game. It looks like a bunch of cartoon characters out there
This post was edited on 4/18/18 at 3:07 pm
Posted on 4/18/18 at 3:16 pm to lsufball19
quote:
every single guy on the list was an all-american with the exception of Mouton, meaning they were the top player at their position in the year they played, so they won over other guys with the same advantages. Everyone but Larson was an elite player during his era for multiple seasons, with several of them being in the college baseball HOF. I just don't think the stat bias is really all that applicable here. If that's all this list entailed, the entire team would be comprised of players between 1996-1998. And it's not.
No doubt they were good if not great... but when push comes to shove between a guy who was great in the 90s vs a guy that was great in recent years... the stats are the only thing that separates them.
If I've got one game to win and any former Tiger to fill my SS postion... I'm going Bregman. I'd also move Dean to the DH and put someone like JC Holt as my leadoff guy/outfielder. There is an argument Tim Lanier should be in there somewhere as well.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 3:17 pm to SaturdayTraditions
I'd take Gibbs over Lanier.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 3:20 pm to SaturdayTraditions
Aaron Nola should also at least get a thought
Big Ben should def be the guy, but Nola is sneaky close when you look at their careers
Big Ben should def be the guy, but Nola is sneaky close when you look at their careers
Posted on 4/18/18 at 3:22 pm to ell_13
quote:
I'd take Gibbs over Lanier.
That's not a bad choice either.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 3:26 pm to Jeaux Cool
I have a hard time leaving Stevenson off my outfield
Posted on 4/18/18 at 3:28 pm to SaturdayTraditions
quote:
There is an argument Tim Lanier should be in there somewhere as well.
where is that?
quote:
If I've got one game to win and any former Tiger to fill my SS postion... I'm going Bregman.
we've had so many elite SS the past 30 years it would be hard to go wrong with a number of different people.
quote:
No doubt they were good if not great... but when push comes to shove between a guy who was great in the 90s vs a guy that was great in recent years... the stats are the only thing that separates them.
But are they? Everyone who came before the BBCOR era did not play in the true gorilla ball era. The gorilla ball era really only truly encompassed 3-4 years. Most of the guys on this team did not play in the gorilla ball era. the bats may have been more lively than they are currently, but I just don't think the argument holds a lot of water when these guys are on the list.
Excluding any stats:
Walker - National Freshman of the year, College Baseball HOF, All-time CWS team, 3x AA, CWS Most Oustanding player, etc
Furniss - Dick Howser Award, SEC POY, 3x AA, College Baseball HOF
Cresse - Johnny Bench Award, 2x AA
Dean - 2x AA, Freshman AA
Mahtook - AA, 2x All-SEC, Freshman AA
McDonald - Golden Spikes Award, SEC POY, 2x AA, College Baseball HOF
Dunn - I don't like this pick but he's the only LSU 3B to ever be named an AA, and that is why he was picked according to the article
That leaves Brandon Larson and Mouton as guys who did not dominate at their position for multiple years in terms of accolades they received. You can say their stats were inflated, but these guys accolades were won against their peers at the time they played. There is no stat bias in that regard.
This post was edited on 4/18/18 at 3:29 pm
Posted on 4/18/18 at 3:32 pm to ell_13
quote:
I'd take Gibbs over Lanier.
I'd take Gary Hymel, Micah Gibbs, Michael Papierski, and maybe even Ty Ross over Lanier. Lanier hit .253 for his career in the gorilla ball era and was not better defensively than any of those guys.
This post was edited on 4/18/18 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 4/18/18 at 3:38 pm to lsufball19
I get the Larson pick. That year is tough to ignore. And it would make lots of sense if we didn't have the SS talent we've had over the years. People really do seem to forget about Williams and Hill as if those guys didn't lead and dominate during their time here.
As far as the outfield, again, you have so many to pick from. Mahtook, Zirengue, Stevenson, Mitchell, Mouton, Hawpe, Holt, Patterson, Belle... I think you have to give it to Mouton and Belle to start then almost take your pick between Mahtook, Stevenson, and Patterson.
As far as the outfield, again, you have so many to pick from. Mahtook, Zirengue, Stevenson, Mitchell, Mouton, Hawpe, Holt, Patterson, Belle... I think you have to give it to Mouton and Belle to start then almost take your pick between Mahtook, Stevenson, and Patterson.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 3:40 pm to nitwit
quote:
Bregman and Belle are conspicuously absent.
Yep.
Bregman was simply magical with his glove. I don't see anyone in our incredible baseball history starting over Bregs at SS. Maybe Mike Miley.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 3:45 pm to ell_13
quote:
I get the Larson pick. That year is tough to ignore. And it would make lots of sense if we didn't have the SS talent we've had over the years. People really do seem to forget about Williams and Hill as if those guys didn't lead and dominate during their time here.
Oh I don't disagree with the Larson pick at all. Regardless of whether or not he was juiced up playing with juiced bats, his production in the 1997 season is impossible to ignore and just shelve because he was only here a year.
quote:
As far as the outfield, again, you have so many to pick from. Mahtook, Zirengue, Stevenson, Mitchell, Mouton, Hawpe, Holt, Patterson, Belle... I think you have to give it to Mouton and Belle to start then almost take your pick between Mahtook, Stevenson, and Patterson.
Also agree. We've had far too many outfielders to limit it to three. Arguments can be made for many, but I also don't think you can argue against anyone on the list given it doesn't provide for a DH.
Really the only player on the list that just doesn't fit to me is Nathan Dunn
This post was edited on 4/18/18 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 4/18/18 at 3:59 pm to lsufball19
There are 3 players on these all-time lists that will be there forever:
Ben, Todd, and Eddy. If players like Nola, Katz, and Fontenot can't kick those guys out without even a debate, then they'll never be removed.
Ben, Todd, and Eddy. If players like Nola, Katz, and Fontenot can't kick those guys out without even a debate, then they'll never be removed.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 4:00 pm to lsufball19
These lists are always argumentative and subjective at best.
Get 5 different sports writers, you will get 5 different lists.
THIS list is ok, but there are a lot of names that were left off, as tRant has mentioned above, but the names are all since Skip became coach. Always thought Alvin Dark was a pretty good ball player, but those NCAA championships eluded him.
Get 5 different sports writers, you will get 5 different lists.
THIS list is ok, but there are a lot of names that were left off, as tRant has mentioned above, but the names are all since Skip became coach. Always thought Alvin Dark was a pretty good ball player, but those NCAA championships eluded him.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 4:03 pm to Jeaux Cool
Too many good ones to make just 1 team.
Posted on 4/18/18 at 4:11 pm to ell_13
quote:
Ben, Todd, and Eddy. If players like Nola, Katz, and Fontenot can't kick those guys out without even a debate, then they'll never be removed.
Agreed, and I think Cresse is pretty safe too. But yeah, going to be really difficult to supplant three guys in the CBB HOF
Posted on 4/18/18 at 4:13 pm to ell_13
quote:I think Ben vs Nola is at least worth talking about
Ben, Todd, and Eddy. If players like Nola, Katz, and Fontenot can't kick those guys out without even a debate, then they'll never be removed.
Nola career
Freshman year
7-4---3.61 ERA----1.06 WHIP----7 walks-----89 strikeouts---89.2 innings
Sophomore year
12-1----1.57 ERA----0.80 WHIP-----122Ks-----18walks----126 innings
Junior Year
11-1-----1.47 ERA----0.83 WHIP-------134ks------27 walks-----116 innings
Career total
30-6-----2.09 ERA-----0.88WHIP-----345 Ks------52walks-----331 innings---9.35ks/9-----1.41walks/9
Big Ben
Freshman year
2-3---4.06 ERA------1.25 WHIP-----27Ks-----4 walks----37.2 innings----
Sophomore year
13-7-----2.65 ERA-----1.04 WHIP-----144ks-----27walks----118.2 innings
Junior year
14-4----3.49 ERA-----1.08 WHIP----202Ks------40walks-----152 innings
Career total
29-14------3.24ERA------1.08 WHIP------373ks-------71walks-------307 innings-------10.88ks/9------2.07walks/9
Ben faced slightly harder bats, but they were not the juiced bats of the 90s, but that can also be offset with the fact Nola faced harder competition as more elite players were playing college ball
What stands out is Bens strikeouts are insane, but Nola with back to back seasons of a sub 0.85 WHIP is just impossible
Not going to lie, when I put the numbers in front of me I am taking Nola
This post was edited on 4/18/18 at 4:19 pm
Posted on 4/18/18 at 4:16 pm to ByUselves
quote:
Always thought Alvin Dark was a pretty good ball player, but those NCAA championships eluded him.
he also only played here for one season and finished his career at USL.
quote:
but the names are all since Skip became coach.
Well, sadly, our program had very little success before Skip got to campus. We only had 2 AAs in our history before Skip arrived, Mike Miley and Allen Smith. We had only made the NCAAT once in our history prior to 1985 and only 5 SEC Titles from 1939-1975. There, quite simply, isn't much of an argument to include players prior to Skip. Joe Bill Adcock is a name you hear a lot but he was more well known on the basketball court in college (made the LSU all-decade team for the 1940s) before he went on to have a long MLB career
This post was edited on 4/18/18 at 4:19 pm
Posted on 4/18/18 at 4:21 pm to lsupride87
quote:
I think Ben vs Nola is at least worth talking about
I've also made this argument before and tend to agree personally. Nola does have a great argument but with the strikeout record and Golden Spikes, it's going to take another pitcher matching him for any list to take Ben out of the #1 spot.
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