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re: Let's just face it, we suck at recruiting O line
Posted on 7/5/21 at 10:32 pm to escatawpabuckeye
Posted on 7/5/21 at 10:32 pm to escatawpabuckeye
quote:
O line is probably the hardest position to scout coming out of high school because you just don’t always know how these big kids who are used to being the biggest kid on their team will react against big boy competition and coaching.
You don’t need 5 stars. You just have to trust in your scouting and development. Iowa and Wisconsin have been o line driven programs for years without big star recruits on the strength of their system for identifying players they can mold. The nfl is littered with their linemen. You just have to find a good o line coach you trust.
I like all of this.
quote:
If I were lsu I’d hire Kentucky’s o line coach. They’ve had some good lines and they know what they’re doing up there.
I don’t like this.
LSU has a guy who can do the job now so lets allow him to do that. You are correct that you don’t need 5* littered classes to create a dominant Oline. DL is different because they don’t have the luxury of waiting and developing slowly. They’re usually needed immediately and as many as possible to rotate. The OL is more about having the right 5 guys working together cohesively but also having at least 2-3 backups who can plug and play at any given position.
I think we’ll be ok but the sense of urgency is there to pick up 5* talent right now because of our lack of developed depth and a clear game plan for recruiting the OL. There is absolutely nothing wrong with landing 4* talent at OL. Geez. There is also almost absolutely nothing different about having 4 and 5 year developed OLman and Bama having 2 and 3 year 5* talent. Which path do you take? Of course you get the best players available but IF you don’t have that luxury then we have no choice but to take the best available talent then develop that into a dominant Oline. At the moment LSU seems to need to mix both 3* developed talent who stay for 4-5 years with 4* and 5* talent who leave in 3 years.
If we can keep replacing these guys with better players, then what’s the problem? Do that and we’ll be perfectly fine. All this Bama comparison BS is dumb. We can complete with Bama, period, so stop with the inferiority complex.
This is a little off subject but how many of you guys have looked at LSU’s top 200 or so most talented recruits as for as recruiting sites ranking of them prior to playing? If you haven’t, go look at the percentage of guys in that top 200 who have either played for or was recruited by Ed O. It’s a pretty massive number considering the time he’s been here. From 2016 to current I want to say it was like 38% or close to 40% of the names on that list who have played for or was recruited by Ed O. That includes Saban’s classes and Miles classes who we all have said could both recruit like no bodies business. Well he’s out recruiting both of them according to that list and in another 2-3 years he may be closer to 50% or 60% of those names being connected to him. That’s pretty impressive imo. Ed O is definitely recruiting a much more quality player overall than Miles was and it’s not close.
Also the majority of the names have produced for LSU. Some haven’t but there were a lot more who didn’t under previous staffs. Some transferred because of scheme change or coaching changes and some just shouldn’t have ever been on that list. There were also many who should have been on that list and wasn't but that was mostly from Miles as well. Maybe LSU could benefit from Miles being back on the staff in a recruiting role or development role when it comes to the 4* and 3* players. Keep him far away from our top end talent and we could benefit lol. QB’s especially!!! Lol
Posted on 7/5/21 at 10:44 pm to escatawpabuckeye
quote:I was just about to make that point.
Iowa and Wisconsin have been o line driven programs for years without big star recruits on the strength of their system for identifying players they can mold. The nfl is littered with their linemen. You just have to find a good o line coach you trust.
Posted on 7/6/21 at 2:43 am to escatawpabuckeye
quote:
If I were lsu I’d hire Kentucky’s o line coach. They’ve had some good lines and they know what they’re doing up there.
Might want to keep a little bit closer tabs on current events down this way, pahd-no.
This post was edited on 7/7/21 at 3:03 am
Posted on 7/6/21 at 2:58 am to BayouBengal99
Way above average post, BB99. Could have done without the Miles take, though.
I couldn't have said it better (and failed to do so many times!) myself. Are you going to get some disagreement? Sure. But I hope you don't get pummeled with stupidity.
quote:
All this Bama comparison BS is dumb. We can complete with Bama, period, so stop with the inferiority complex.
I couldn't have said it better (and failed to do so many times!) myself. Are you going to get some disagreement? Sure. But I hope you don't get pummeled with stupidity.
This post was edited on 7/6/21 at 11:39 am
Posted on 7/6/21 at 6:35 am to Garnertigah
quote:You think it’s easier training in Tallahassee, Tuscaloosa, Athens or Gainesville?
Think about it. If you weighed 300 lbs, would you want to train in Louisiana? There are a lot of other options where conditions would be more favorable to the big boys...and the path to the NFL not too much different.
Also anyone who’s that soft mentally will never make or to the NFL and if they do they won’t last more than a year.
Posted on 7/6/21 at 6:53 am to escatawpabuckeye
quote:
If I were lsu I’d hire Kentucky’s o line coach. They’ve had some good lines and they know what they’re doing up there.
AAAAAAHHHHHHH WHAT????????
OK let's fire the guy we just hired to replace Cregg before he has coached one game at LSU and replace him with the Kentucky coach who also has never coached one game at LSU.
Get back on your medicine dude, geeze what buffoon.
This post was edited on 7/6/21 at 6:57 am
Posted on 7/6/21 at 8:03 am to Jugular Joe
Because contrary to the myth Louisiana is not a great state for recruiting an overall football team. Yes it is a talent rich state per capita but is still a small state with not much population which is why the per capita numbers are so high. And then if you look at the numbers most of the talent is RB, WR, D line, and DB. Historically for QB, LB and O line you have to go out of state. There has been exceptions to this but for the most part you have to be able to recruit nationally at LSU to compete on the levels of Bama, Ohio State, and Georgia year in and year out. If you want to stay on the four year cycle then you continue to focus mainly on Louisiana and build the team that way.
Posted on 7/6/21 at 8:03 am to Damathe
I like that statement as well, BB99 & Damathe. The constant comparisons to Bama really do get old. IMO, The worst ones are when people automatically write-off a recruit (or measure how good a recruit is) based on whether or not the kid has an offer from Bama.
Can’t stand that, drives me crazy!!
Can’t stand that, drives me crazy!!
Posted on 7/6/21 at 8:07 am to geauxtigers33
They are very, very few states that you can recruit every position at a high level. Hell, even Florida does not produce high-level talent at every single position (O-Line, for example, is not a particular strength from that state).
Posted on 7/6/21 at 11:00 am to Jugular Joe
Top qb play makes OL look better. (JB made our line win top award?
Posted on 7/6/21 at 12:27 pm to Jugular Joe
Did Kelvin get your Jugular Joe, slow down if we can get E Jones, F West, and 1 or maybe even 2 of the stud OTs still in play we’ll be fine. Still got 5-7 months left before dotted line days, but if 17-18 yr olds are going to hurt your feelings every time they commit to someone else maybe this recruiting thing isn’t for you. If you’re sad just think what Tx & Tx AM fans feel like when Nike swooshes (no pun) in and steals their best in state OT. They didn’t get ours O and LSU did.
This post was edited on 7/10/21 at 5:19 pm
Posted on 7/6/21 at 1:00 pm to geauxtigers33
LBs ugh D White, B James, P Queen
Gumps- C Harris, D Moses
Gumps- C Harris, D Moses
Posted on 7/6/21 at 2:16 pm to Jugular Joe
Great olinemen want to play for a great quarterback…we’ve missed on QB’s because of prior staffs choices and that trickles down to future classes. LSU just needs to keep recruiting Borrow caliber QBs and the big boys will come. Johnson and Walker are great starts to changing the past!
Posted on 7/6/21 at 2:18 pm to Jugular Joe
We're less than 2 years removed from a Joe Moore award...
Posted on 7/6/21 at 3:07 pm to geauxtigers33
quote:Can't argue with that.
Because contrary to the myth Louisiana is not a great state for recruiting an overall football team. Yes it is a talent rich state per capita but is still a small state with not much population which is why the per capita numbers are so high. And then if you look at the numbers most of the talent is RB, WR, D line, and DB. Historically for QB, LB and O line you have to go out of state. There has been exceptions to this but for the most part you have to be able to recruit nationally at LSU to compete on the levels of Bama, Ohio State, and Georgia year in and year out. If you want to stay on the four year cycle then you continue to focus mainly on Louisiana and build the team that way.
For OL recruiting there's a couple of hinderances (or advantages depending on perspective) that affect who you recruit and how successful they will be. Most of these are to varying degrees related by the way:
1. Population centers and bigger schools. LA (like AR or MS) have a huge number of kids in smaller, as defined by difficult to recruit because of the resources required to find players, schools as compared to states with more and larger population centers. We from LA think of Shreveport as a population center. But it pales in comparison to a Houston or Miami metro area.
2. Evaluating recruits. If there's one position you absolutely can not star gaze it is OL. For one, the recruit might not be fully developed physically. Secondly, if we struggle to evaluate them along with 120+ other schools you can't count on rivals and 247 to do much better. Yes, most 5*'s are no brainers and they've had eyes laid on them. But there's not enough of them to go around. You have to find a future NFLer in a 3* or 4* to be successful and not burn spots for future non-starters. It's almost a NASA-esque level of Zero Failure rate since the inception of the 25 man limit. But you need a small army of non-coaches to evaluate as many OL as you have to put 5 quality players on the field. That's actually Wisconson's and tOSU's secret to success in regards to the OL. Studwra has a whole crew dedicated to soley that at tOSU. Everybody from analysts, GAs (limits), and "consultants".
3. High School coaching. This is my biggest pet peeve. And probably should be #1 hinderance. Of course in the population centers you have bigger schools and typically better and, more importantly, more specialized coaches. Many smaller schools don't even have an OL coach. Many that do have no business being an OL coach. At schools where you have good OL coaching you also get more visibility for the D-1 OL even if the services haven't clued in to them because they know what they are looking at and get the word out. Furthermore, next to QB a D-1 OT is the hardest to learn, develop, and recruit. Without a "leg up" where they are learning to go against DL/LBs that are on such high level that they don't have to face at the HS level requires a very good coach. It's too easy for the really high-ceiling OL at the HS level and then all of a sudden you are facing 300 lb. DE's that are quicker than a scared deer and run faster than your RB.
The solution: there's no magic bullet. Forget about it. However, there's several things that can be done. And yes, LSU has started doing many of these; I'm not saying we haven't, just saying what the "holistic" approach should be outside standard recruiting practices:
A) More camps. Period. Dedicated "line camps" are awesome.
B) Camps for HS coaches. Not just recruits. Far fewer limits and regs too btw.
C) That small army I mentioned. A whole group of people, including 3rd part consultants, to pour through an exceptionally high volume of players. Their job is to whittle the list down, nationally, to 20 - 30 OL the recruiters can actually laser in on. Volume is the key. But processing that volume is a key. It's something standard recruiting practices just can't handle due to that volume. This goes for DL and OL by the way.
Posted on 7/6/21 at 5:31 pm to dwright369
quote:Yeah, but, ooof!
Hell, even Florida does not produce high-level talent at every single position (O-Line, for example, is not a particular strength from that state).
How long before some mensa on here rips Dumervil and Martinez? "See, told you so! We can't recruit OOS OL!"
Maybe this will diffuse shitting on them - but I wouldn't bet on it.
Posted on 7/6/21 at 6:29 pm to Sissidog02
quote:
LBs ugh D White, B James, P Queen
Gumps- C Harris, D Moses
There are exceptions to what I said like these but you named 5 and one of those 5 played in the early 2000’s.
Posted on 7/6/21 at 7:52 pm to Tigertoof
quote:
Great olinemen want to play for a great quarterback…we’ve missed on QB’s because of prior staffs choices and that trickles down to future classes. LSU just needs to keep recruiting Borrow caliber QBs and the big boys will come. Johnson and Walker are great starts to changing the past!
God I hope so!
Posted on 7/6/21 at 8:05 pm to BayouBengal99
quote:
Maybe LSU could benefit from Miles being back on the staff in a recruiting role or development role when it comes to the 4* and 3* players. Keep him far away from our top end talent and we could benefit lol. QB’s especially!!! Lol
BB99, I was with you all the way until this lmao. Miles was a former oline coach. Maybe I’m wrong lol
Posted on 7/6/21 at 9:31 pm to I20goon
quote:Effing outstanding contribution, Goonie!!!
For OL recruiting there's a couple of hinderances (or advantages depending on perspective) that affect who you recruit and how successful they will be. Most of these are to varying degrees related by the way, etc....
This post was edited on 7/7/21 at 2:58 am
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