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How much ventilation is needed here?

Posted on 6/17/24 at 3:52 pm
Posted by TigerCael
Member since Jul 2019
146 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 3:52 pm
My neighbor is finishing out his back porch, and he put this top section of wall up. Behind it is a cavity where you can see the underside of the retrofitted patio and the old roof of the house before they added this patio. I'm concerned that this is going to cause moisture problems because the old roof is "cold" right here. The ceiling in the adjacent room is peaked and follows right up against the roof.

Will a few 4 inch holes with some screen material, trimmed out to look not terrible, provide enough ventilation to prevent any future moisture problems? Or should I tell him to put a humidistat with an auto switch and an exhaust fan there in addition to a couple of intake vents?



Picture of said added wall
Posted by Major Dutch Schaefer
Location: Classified
Member since Nov 2011
35569 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 6:34 pm to
Posted by TigerCael
Member since Jul 2019
146 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 6:36 pm to
Thanks! I tried my best but couldn't get it to insert the image on mobile.
This post was edited on 6/17/24 at 6:37 pm
Posted by Maillard
BTR
Member since Jul 2021
269 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 6:42 pm to
Help me out. Are the joists hanging off on the old rafters? They don't appear to be going through the sheathing.
Posted by TigerCael
Member since Jul 2019
146 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 7:01 pm to
Yeah the ceiling joists for the patio are hanging off the rafter tails from the house. Each joist has 6 framing nails holding it to the rafter. They don't go through the sheathing. They appear to be holding up a central tie and vertical support, but they're only about 7'6" off the ground. He wants to put the ceiling up above the joists and hang it from the rafters holding up the patio roof, which run parallel to the house. It's pole-barn style, so the tension load is handled by a big treated LVL beam on the exterior gable edge of the patio directly behind me as I take the picture. This top, triangular section of the wall is what he added himself. He built a frame out of PT furring strips and secured it to a porch rafter at the top and the face of the house at the bottom, then nailed primed 3/8 ply that matches his original siding over it.

Behind this new wall is about 150 cubic feet of open space, shaped like a triangular pyramid with the flat face towards you and the "tip" the farthest point away. One face is the old roof of the house, which was left in place when the patio roof was built. The new structure was bolted right through the old roof, then flashed and reshingled to make a continuous roof. That old, now enclosed roof is the roof over his living room, which has a peaked ceiling. The only thing between the sheetrock and the decking is 2x10s and whatever insulation is left from 1989 when the house was built. I'm concerned that the old roof will provide a cool surface (since it's so close to AC) for humidity (Houston area) to condensate on and cause moisture intrusion problems down the line. I'm wondering if cutting 6 or 8 4" round holes in it with a hole saw, stapling screen over the holes, then trimming them out to look half-decent will provide enough airflow to prevent moisture build-up, or if he'll need to go a little more elaborate and "force" some air exchange using a small exhaust fan.
This post was edited on 6/17/24 at 7:12 pm
Posted by Maillard
BTR
Member since Jul 2021
269 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 7:37 pm to
I see. So basically they framed in a hip roof. I believe normally they would cut a hole in that roof to allow the air to mix. Similar to a fake Dormer on a roof. I'm not sure on that ventilation, especially if he didn't insulate that wall.
Posted by TigerCael
Member since Jul 2019
146 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 7:49 pm to
Ah so you're saying normally a hole would be cut through the old, now completely enclosed, roof to essentially make it a hard to access part of the attic? I don't think that would work here since there is no attic under the now covered section of roof. It'd have insulation directly under it and then the backside of the drywall for the living room ceiling. No empty space at all.
Posted by baseballmind1212
Missouri City
Member since Feb 2011
3347 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 7:51 pm to
Cut in a couple of 6" return grilles. Paint them the same color as his trim (or leave them white if trim is white. Put some black bug screen behind the grille to keep birds/bugs out.

Assuming he has a traditional Unconditioned attic, this would act just like soffit vents did on his old roof line.

No need to insulate if the space behind that wall top out is un conditioned.
Posted by TigerCael
Member since Jul 2019
146 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 8:24 pm to
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you under the impression that this cavity is connected to the main attic area? I think I'm doing a poor job of explaining. There is no connection to the existing attic, nor is there a ridge vent on this retrofitted patio roof section. This is now a completely isolated, newly enclosed cavity. Would some return vents provide enough opportunity for air exchange, even without a ridge vent?
Posted by T-Jon
Member since Jan 2012
40 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 4:04 am to
Did he put a vapor barrier behind the sheathing? If so, and everything is properly sealed and flashed, I would leave it as is. If not, maybe install a couple of small louvered gable vents with a bird/insect screen. Make them removable and you will have some access to the small dead space.

Based on your description, venting this area might only change the location of the surface where dew point conditions occur to the old roof, which has now likely been compromised by the over framing.
This post was edited on 6/18/24 at 4:07 am
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
40289 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:33 pm to
Exhausting hot, humid air and replacing it with hot humid air will not elevate condensation issues.
Posted by junkfunky
Member since Jan 2011
35077 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 7:49 pm to
Why not just remove the paneling above the ceiling joists?
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