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Programming progression of front squats and rows

Posted on 10/3/19 at 7:31 am
Posted by DeafJam73
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
19122 posts
Posted on 10/3/19 at 7:31 am
So after learning from top lifters in the game (mainly Brian Alsruhe), I’m a believer that the front squat and barbell row should be very strong. They are monumental exercises that translate well across the four big lifts. My question is this: how do I properly program these “accessory” lifts into my program? I’m currently running 531 Triumvirate. I don’t want to scratch out one of the big lifts, and I also don’t want to spend more time in the gym than I need to. What is the smart way to get stronger on those two movements within my program?
Posted by burgeman
Member since Jun 2008
10562 posts
Posted on 10/3/19 at 7:40 am to
I'm interested in this as well. On another note, are you still wanting to apply with br?
Posted by DeafJam73
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
19122 posts
Posted on 10/3/19 at 7:48 am to
Yes, I am getting married first. One life changing event at a time.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
37937 posts
Posted on 10/3/19 at 8:22 am to
So personally since you are running 531, the easiest thing to do would add BBB sets after squats and deadlifts using front squats and rows. Or even running them less boring where front squat is on deadlift day etc. Could also do barbell row on both upper body days and front squat on both lower body days if they are a real focus for you.

Could also use bbs setup. As far as progression goes, you can start light and use a linear progression using 2.5lbs per or you can Just use the percentages like normal BBB.

Or the other way is to treat them as a main lift and do them like traditional 531 just as a second main lift.

Are you a member of his private forum? If so he has a post about how to program the kroc row that would give you some good ideas.
Posted by lsuwhoopyoazz3232
Member since Sep 2006
2477 posts
Posted on 10/3/19 at 8:57 am to
Are you trying to go heavy on these lifts? I usually do my main lift of the day then do a primary accessory that has carry over to that particular lift. For instance, after deadlifts I will do 3x8-10 of something like bb rows or romanian deadlifts. I will also autoregulate the assistance lifts and change the rep range and set week to week so I can go heavier if I am feeling good. Obviously, this will be towards the beginning of the training cycle when I am training at a lower percentage of my training max.

Or you can go through a hypertrophy block on your big lifts while going heavy on the primary assistance lifts for a little bit. For example, start with the heavy front squat then move on to the back squat at a lower intensity.

Speaking of top lifters this is a good video of Ed Coan and Mark Bell talking about assistance lifts for the squat and deadlift. I started doing the "cheat" BB row after watching this video.

LINK
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
37937 posts
Posted on 10/3/19 at 9:15 am to
quote:

Programming Kroc Rows using 5/3/1 (read if you want to know about assistance work)

Programming Kroc Rows using 5/3/1

I've been using the method of training my assistance work for a few years now; pretty much since I "finalized" the sets/reps/percentages. Using the Kroc Row as an example, I'll show you how to use the 5/3/1 program (sets/reps/percentages) to make it a "no brainer" on what weights to do, etc.

First, EVERYTHING is based on your TM. You have to manipulate your TM so that you get the numbers you want for the sets/top weight. YOU DO NOT use any % of a maximum or anything like that. Because of this, there is NO hard and fast rules of what to pick. That is why I decided to leave this out of the book and articles. You must have a solid foundation in training/programming and be able to work things out on your own. Again, you have to be smart enough to understand that the TM is used to manipulate the numbers - in other words, you figure out what weights you want to hit over X amount of time and then use these numbers to find your TM. It is the other way around in the traditional 5/3/1 program.

So let's say that we are doing a 6 week cycle of Kroc Rows. And let's say you are doing Kroc Rows once/week and want to do 180 for a PR set of 25 reps at the end of the 6 weeks.

So....

We play around with the TM and realize that in order to hit the number of 180 on the last week of the 6 week cycle, we have to use the TM of 185. In other words, 180 divided .95 = 185.

Thus the final six weeks (weeks 4,5,6) will look like this:

Week 4: 125x warm-up, 140x warm-up, 160x all out
Week 5: 130 x warm-up, 150 x warm-up, 170 x all out
Week 6: 140x warm-up, 160 x warm-up, 180 x PR set

Now let's look at the first 3 weeks. There is no hard/set rule about how much to increase between the cycles. You will have to use your best judgement and use your training knowledge and experience to do this. Again, you MUST take it upon yourself to be pro-active in this department; and please DO NOT be afraid to make some mistakes. This is the only way to learn.

With my experience, I would use a 170 TM for this particular period of my training and what I know.

So the first three weeks would look like this:

Week 1: 115 x warm-up, 130x warm-up, 145 x all out
Week 2: 120 x warm-up, 140 x warm-up, 155 x all out
Week 3: 130 x warm-up, 145 x warm-up, 165 x all out

Notes:

There is no set rule of how many reps to do on the warm-up set. This is up to you.

You can skip the middle set if you want. Again, this is up to you.

You may have to a few warm-up sets prior to the 3 sets; that is up to you.




The manipulation of the TM, sets and reps of this program can be used in just about anything IF YOU 100% UNDERSTAND how to use TM to your advantage. Also, you can only use this style of programming towards exercises that are easy to load and calculate (i.e. NOT on side laterals, weighted bodyweight work (chins/dips), etc. In other words, this applies to assistance work that usually "mean something". I use the same principles with BBB training, 5's progression, strength phases, Rest/Pause, etc. There are countless set/rep combos that I have developed using this basic system and ALL are based on the manipulation of the TM, NOT ON A MAX. These will be explained in much better detail in the new book.

The reason why I did this was it makes programming the assistance work in the 6 week cycles much easier. And..gives you a plan on the important shite that you do in the weight room.

Now a lot of this is probably confusing and you can see why I always left this out. But if you can figure it out and it fits your "training style" it can work. Pegg and I did this with the SS Bar squats for a 6 week period. We did VERY sub max sets of 5 for 6 weeks. At the end of the 6 weeks, I hit a huge PR of 410, no belt for 15 reps. In other words, the shite can work. Just don't over estimate your TM (sound familiar) because you will tank. 100% of the time, you will frick up if you over extend yourself on the TM. I know this because I've played around with this for years and have seen it happen time and time again with myself and those I've worked with.




That is how Jim says it should be done if you are not doing it BBB, bbs, fsl, or ssl as described in the forever book.
Posted by DeafJam73
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
19122 posts
Posted on 10/3/19 at 12:29 pm to
Thanks for the info. I will have to read it again when I get home later, and get it all on paper.

The goal is to get really strong with barbell rows and front squats. Not that I’m week. I can row 225 with ease for reps, and I can rep 300+ on front squats. Those are just byproducts of my main lifts. I’ve never actually trained them specifically for strength. They were always accessory.
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