re: Number 4 at Greystone

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The majority of the double doglegs you posted are borderline straight with small bends in the fairway around bunkers. Greystone 4 is almost two right angles. The only comparison in your list is the 5th at Whistling Straits. The difference is that there is no trees, so you can cut the corners. It also doesn't take driver out of your hand.

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The trees on 4 make the double dog leg a true three shot hole.

On in 2 is almost impossible, which many will see as a design flaw to not even be able to attempt an Eagle.

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Greystone's issue is that it has multiple quirky holes and multiple holes that driver not only isn't the best option but isn't an option at all.

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Multiple holes that take driver out of your hand is a good thing. Bombing or spraying the ball everywhere 14 times a round isn’t good golf imo.

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Hell, the most interesting par 3 on the course has a green that is built 180* backwards lol.

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90° is what I heard. But it’s not an unheard of design. The 16th at Pasatiempo comes to mind.

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Hell, the most interesting par 3 on the course has a green that is built 180* backwards lol.

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you referring to 13?

Has to be. The reversed tiers.

I remember ChrisBurky posting about a Redan. I found his post. And here’s what google says:

A Redan in golf is a specific type of par-3 hole design, originally inspired by a famous hole from North Berwick Golf Club in Scotland, the 15th hole, known as the “Redan.” The term comes from a French military fortification—a V-shaped structure with an open back—and was adapted by architect Charles Blair Macdonald to describe a strategic hole layout that’s been replicated and riffed on worldwide. It’s one of the most iconic templates in golf course architecture.

Key Features of a Redan:

1 Sloping Green: The green typically slopes from front-right to back-left (in a traditional right-handed Redan), running diagonally away from the tee box. This tilt makes the green play like a tilted tabletop, shedding balls that don’t land precisely.
2 Angled Approach: The green is set at an angle, usually 45 degrees from the tee, forcing players to decide how to attack it—whether to fade the ball into the slope or take on the carry over hazards.
3 Bunker Protection: A deep bunker guards the front-left side, punishing shots that come up short or drift left with the slope. Often, there’s another bunker or trouble to the right, framing the green tightly.
4 Kickplate: Many Redans feature a slope or mound short of the green on the right, acting as a “kickplate” to bounce well-struck shots onto the putting surface, rewarding clever play.
5 Strategic Options: The design tempts players to either go for the pin directly or use the contours to funnel the ball toward the hole, blending risk and reward.

How It Plays:
A classic Redan might be 180-200 yards, with a green that’s narrow and long. If the pin is back-left, a straight shot might roll off the green into trouble due to the slope. Smart players often aim right, letting the ball feed down the tilt toward the hole. Wind, often a factor on these exposed holes, adds another layer of difficulty.

The Redan’s genius lies in its simplicity and deception—it looks straightforward but demands precision and creativity. Architects love it because it tests every club in the bag and every shot shape in a player’s arsenal.

Perfect hard 3wood 30yd fade/slice for me. I love the hole