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Started By
Message
re: “James Hahn Rips New PGA Tour Plan And Says The Stars Are Being ‘Very Hypocritical’”
Posted on 3/7/23 at 6:44 am to Maravich
Posted on 3/7/23 at 6:44 am to Maravich
quote:
Thoughts
He's not wrong. The irony of the anti-LIV crowd.
I'd love to see both leagues get equal treatment for 2 seasons and even work together on some events and watch how fast the sport grows.
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Posted on 3/7/23 at 6:53 am to BBONDS25
quote:
Wait a minute. The guys that left for the LIV are bad guys for chasing money, but they guys on tour that endorse these elevated events because it gets them more money, are fine. And frick Hahn for pointing it out? Is that the position we are taking?
I have never made the argument that chasing the money made anyone a “bad guy”. I have always said bye and next man up. My only contention has been the players leaving the tour, but still wanting access to play the tour. That is my only problem with the whole deal, but that dead horse has been beaten to shite. Back on topic, I used to be a Hahn fan because he worked with Dan Carraher in FL. He has since become a whiner, and if he played better he would be chasing the money on LIV in a heartbeat.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 8:35 am to SingleMalt1973
quote:
They are basically creating a Korn Ferry tour within the PGA schedule.
But are they? If 125 players keep their tour card, but only 70 get into the designated events, it means 55 of the top 125 play in the regular events. And that doesn't even take into account the top players that are sponsored by the companies that put on some of these events or the players that will play in their hometown events.
The only thing I don't particularly care for in this thing is that they are changing the rules in the middle of the season, so that the top 50 in this year's FedEx Cup automatically get into next year's elevated events. That decision should have been made and communicated prior to the start of the 2022-23 season.
But it all boils down to one thing: Play better.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 9:11 am to BMoney
Except you have what 7-10 guys in LIV that should be in the top 50?
Smith, DJ, Koepka, Reed, Niemann, Bryson, Louie, Gooch, Ancer
Smith, DJ, Koepka, Reed, Niemann, Bryson, Louie, Gooch, Ancer
Posted on 3/7/23 at 9:24 am to BMoney
James Hahn is upset with PIP as well.
“We never should have gone to $100 million to begin with, but that’s $50 million we just threw away on this experiment,” Hahn said. “And we knew that no one was really gonna go jump ship [to LIV]. You’re just funneling money to this small group of people just because they were demanding it. They were literally negotiating with the tour, and they were saying that this is what they want or else. They basically said, not word for word, ‘We want $120 million in the PIP or else,’ and we said, ‘OK, what if what if we give you 100?’ ‘OK, we’ll settle for 100.’ That’s not how a business is run. That’s not how an organization is run. That’s not how the PGA Tour should be run.”
In the first two years of the PIP, Woods finished atop the standings, despite only six total starts in those two seasons.
“I use the word popular instead of best players because, granted that Tiger is one of the best players to ever have played this game, but he just won the PIP money two years running without really playing golf, without being ranked in the top 1,000 and without keeping his card,” Hahn said. “I never would have imagined growing up that someone could make more money just for being popular than for how good they are on the course.
Look at all the fun money the PGA is just giving away these days. And those POOR boys just couldn't compete. It's hard to blame the working class for being ticked off when the PGA is just paying off big names. The discontent is growing, quickly.
“We never should have gone to $100 million to begin with, but that’s $50 million we just threw away on this experiment,” Hahn said. “And we knew that no one was really gonna go jump ship [to LIV]. You’re just funneling money to this small group of people just because they were demanding it. They were literally negotiating with the tour, and they were saying that this is what they want or else. They basically said, not word for word, ‘We want $120 million in the PIP or else,’ and we said, ‘OK, what if what if we give you 100?’ ‘OK, we’ll settle for 100.’ That’s not how a business is run. That’s not how an organization is run. That’s not how the PGA Tour should be run.”
In the first two years of the PIP, Woods finished atop the standings, despite only six total starts in those two seasons.
“I use the word popular instead of best players because, granted that Tiger is one of the best players to ever have played this game, but he just won the PIP money two years running without really playing golf, without being ranked in the top 1,000 and without keeping his card,” Hahn said. “I never would have imagined growing up that someone could make more money just for being popular than for how good they are on the course.
Look at all the fun money the PGA is just giving away these days. And those POOR boys just couldn't compete. It's hard to blame the working class for being ticked off when the PGA is just paying off big names. The discontent is growing, quickly.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 9:49 am to bamameister
quote:
Look at all the fun money the PGA is just giving away these days. And those POOR boys just couldn't compete. It's hard to blame the working class for being ticked off when the PGA is just paying off big names. The discontent is growing, quickly.
They are moving away from the giveaway that is PIP towards more of a meritocracy in designated events that nobody is guaranteed to be a part of.
quote:
The discontent is growing, quickly.
They have options. If LIV will have them, they can try to get the guaranteed money. The only problem is LIV only has 48 spots and, I believe, they announced they will not be adding anyone else this year. The other option is to play better on the tour to earn this better pay.
I don't think anything will make Hahn happy. It appears he liked it better 5 years or so ago, but changing nothing would be a guarantee of failure for the tour. He hated PIP for giving money to golfers for popularity rather than play, which I agree with. Now, they decided to give more money to golfers that play better, and he still isn't happy.
I can definitely understand the argument that having only 70 players and no cut limits the number of people that can earn this bigger payday. However, the cut is just happening before the tournament starts now. I am not sure what to think of this yet, but it's very similar to what the Premier League did in the early 90s. They broke away from the Football League to make their own entity. The teams not in the premier league could still earn their way in, and the teams in it could still fall out (not claiming relegation was created then, but the financial windfall of being in the top league grew significantly).
This post was edited on 3/7/23 at 9:56 am
Posted on 3/7/23 at 9:53 am to bamameister
quote:
It's hard to blame the working class for being ticked off when the PGA is just paying off big names. The discontent is growing, quickly.
The working class wouldn't be playing golf for a living if it wasn't for Tiger. James Hahn is more than welcome to go give Gangnam Style dance lessons if he doesn't like playing golf for a living.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 9:54 am to BBONDS25
quote:
The guys that left for the LIV are bad guys for chasing money
Who has said this? Most of us have said that we don't blame the players for leaving for the absurd amount of money they are making with LIV.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:01 am to DestrehanTiger
I'm going to take my European soccer comparison further here. I think this could make the non-designated events more interesting. One of the most exciting aspects of soccer every year is the playoffs to get into the Premier League. Teams ranked 3-6 in the second league play a knockout tournament to get in. It is super intense.
If done right, this could happen on the tour. On Sunday afternoon, they may have 10 guys fighting for the top 3 spots which would qualify them for the designated event the next week. There would be real stakes on the line that, hopefully, the telecast will communicate to the viewer.
So, instead of having a bunch of tournaments that are all just ok and the majors. Promote the designated events as mini majors and the non-designated events as exciting tournaments for mid level players to earn their way to the big stage.
If done right, this could happen on the tour. On Sunday afternoon, they may have 10 guys fighting for the top 3 spots which would qualify them for the designated event the next week. There would be real stakes on the line that, hopefully, the telecast will communicate to the viewer.
So, instead of having a bunch of tournaments that are all just ok and the majors. Promote the designated events as mini majors and the non-designated events as exciting tournaments for mid level players to earn their way to the big stage.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:11 am to DestrehanTiger
quote:
I can definitely understand the argument that having only 70 players and no cut limits the number of people that can earn this bigger payday. However, the cut is just happening before the tournament starts now. I am not sure what to think of this yet, but it's very similar to what the Premier League did in the early 90s. They broke away from the Football League to make their own entity. The teams not in the premier league could still earn their way in, and the teams in it could still fall out (not claiming relegation was created then, but the financial windfall of being in the top league grew significantly).
Hahn made 2 good points. Hypocrisy: Just say it's about the money. Tiger and Alfalfa aren't in any hurry to use the M word with the rest of the PGA. I would say trust is going away fast with the troops.
And two: PIP and special elevated events with mass payouts don't spell meritocracy to the guys looking in.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:16 am to BMoney
quote:
The working class wouldn't be playing golf for a living if it wasn't for Tiger. James Hahn is more than welcome to go give Gangnam Style dance lessons if he doesn't like playing golf for a living.
So he and his PIP buddies get paid for having wonderful personalities. Everyone else gets to chase what's left on the bone. Are you sure that's how you define Meritocracy?
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:20 am to bamameister
quote:
So he and his PIP buddies get paid for having wonderful personalities. Everyone else gets to chase what's left on the bone. Are you sure that's how you define Meritocracy?
They have cut the PIP money in half for 2024 and reallocated it to tournament purses. Shouldn't that make Hahn happy?
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:22 am to bamameister
quote:
special elevated events with mass payouts don't spell meritocracy to the guys looking in.
Play better. Jon Rahm won't be in the elevated events because he's Jon Rahm. He'll be in because he earned it.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:28 am to DestrehanTiger
quote:
Play better. Jon Rahm won't be in the elevated events because he's Jon Rahm. He'll be in because he earned it.
Sure he will. If he gets hurt and can't get his points he will be protected under PIP. Why do you think these players are so upset?
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:32 am to bamameister
quote:
Sure he will. If he gets hurt and can't get his points he will be protected under PIP. Why do you think these players are so upset?
Protected how? He may still earn a portion of the 50 million if his PIP score is high enough, but it's not a portion of 100 million. What players are so upset? We will find out today when they have their big meeting at the Players. Granted, I may not be looking in enough places, but I've seen comments from Hahn and Malnati. Malnati likes the changes, Hahn doesn't.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:34 am to DestrehanTiger
quote:
Malnati likes the changes,
Malnati understands he has to earn his way.
quote:
Hahn doesn't.
He is a whiner. He can always go back to selling shoes if he doesn't like the tour.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:48 am to DestrehanTiger
quote:
Protected how?
Because the PGA makes exceptions to their bylaws. Tiger Woods keeps winning all this money from PIP and how many events did he play in last season, 5 maybe 6 events?
Tiger and Alfalfa have got Jay Monahan by the shorthairs.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:51 am to bamameister
Yet James Hahn couldn't be bothered to show up at the players' meeting today. 
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:55 am to BMoney
quote:
Yet James Hahn couldn't be bothered to show up at the players' meeting today
I would say, offhand, that he has already done his talking through Golf Digest.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:56 am to bamameister
quote:
Alfalfa
So dumb. Grow up.
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