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Message
re: Cam Smith and Leishman to LIV
Posted on 8/10/22 at 12:47 pm to SuperOcean
Posted on 8/10/22 at 12:47 pm to SuperOcean
quote:
And Rory has played...10 events?
13. But I'd say an average of $633k per 4 days of work isn't bad. Percy has played in 17 events and won $576K for an average of $33k. So Rory earns, per tournament, ~20x what Percy does. Seems about right IMO. On a per tournament basis, Rory has earned more than anyone on tour with Scheffler coming in 2nd at $598k per event.
1
Posted on 8/10/22 at 1:13 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
The fact that Cameron Percy makes $500k and the 10th ranked player in the season-long standing
You would have to finish last in 4 LIV tourneys to make that kind of money.
Posted on 8/10/22 at 1:14 pm to bamameister
quote:
You would have to finish last in 4 LIV tourneys to make that kind of money.
Yeah, but you wouldn't get it. It would be a draw from your up front payment.
Posted on 8/10/22 at 1:43 pm to lsufball19
quote:
13. But I'd say an average of $633k per 4 days of work isn't bad. Percy has played in 17 events and won $576K for an average of $33k. So Rory earns, per tournament, ~20x what Percy does. Seems about right IMO. On a per tournament basis, Rory has earned more than anyone on tour with Scheffler coming in 2nd at $598k per event.
Your arguement gets much weaker if Rory doesnt play well. He's been one of the most consistent players on tour this year. He could finish t50 every week and would still be the needle mover
Posted on 8/10/22 at 1:51 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Your arguement gets much weaker if Rory doesnt play well. He's been one of the most consistent players on tour this year. He could finish t50 every week and would still be the needle mover
Isn't that what PIP is for? He earned 3.5 million last year for that. And IIRC, they increased the pool for PIP this year
Are you trying to argue for PGA Tour players being under contracts like LIV? Because how well they play is always going to determine their earnings on Tour otherwise
This post was edited on 8/10/22 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 8/10/22 at 1:55 pm to lsufball19
quote:
Isn't that what PIP is for? He earned 3.5 million last year for that. And IIRC, they increased the pool for PIP this year
$3.5 million is chump change. Just in a what your worth arguement, Rory has to be worth $30 million+ per year, no matter how he plays.
He seems to be unbothered by it because all indication is he's absolutely killed it off the course, but I'm just relaying the rationale behind LIV.
quote:
Are you trying to argue for PGA Tour players being under contracts like LIV? Because how well they play is always going to determine their earnings on Tour otherwise
No, and not its not. What's stopping the Tour from going to more of a PIP model overall? I'm not saying that it's the best idea, but they control the payouts. They could lower purses and take that same money and pay it out through bonuses like the PIP to their biggest players.
This post was edited on 8/10/22 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 8/10/22 at 1:56 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Your arguement gets much weaker if Rory doesnt play well. He's been one of the most consistent players on tour this year. He could finish t50 every week and would still be the needle mover
Which is why the PGA Tour also recognizes "needle movers" with an off the course payout. In another thread I said I think that they need to revamp it because tiger is so big that he can not play and earn that influencer money
Posted on 8/10/22 at 1:59 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
I understand the rationale of LIV but I also don't think what LIV is paying players represents their actual worth either. What I don't know is what you think the PGA needs to do financially for things to be just. Increase the number of players who get PIP payments as well as the overall pool? What? And tbh, I have no idea how the methodology of how they determine that top 10 as is
This post was edited on 8/10/22 at 2:00 pm
Posted on 8/10/22 at 2:00 pm to lsufball19
News out today that potential PGA Tour rookie of the year Cameron Young will be joining as well. That will leave a mark if true.
Posted on 8/10/22 at 2:01 pm to lsufball19
quote:
Because how well they play is always going to determine their earnings on Tour otherwise
As a fan, that is what I have always loved about the PGA Tour. Hope that never goes away, but I guess it will eventually.
Posted on 8/10/22 at 2:05 pm to massiveattack
quote:
News out today that potential PGA Tour rookie of the year Cameron Young will be joining as well. That will leave a mark if true.
This has been rumored for a week or so. I was looking forward to him and Willy Z being paired together at the President's Cup.
Posted on 8/10/22 at 2:06 pm to lsufball19
quote:
I also don't think what LIV is paying players represents their actual worth either.
I don't either
quote:
What I don't know is what you think the PGA needs to do financially for things to be just.
Stop paying guys that are completely irrelevant in both entertainment and the overall competition. Peter Malnati is never going to move the needle in either the competition or the entertainment product. Rickie Fowler may never move the needle in the competition department, but at least he gets people to turn the TV on.
Then we can talk about the fact the Omar Uresti and John Huston and frank licliter and JJ henry are still getting starts
quote:
Increase the number of players who get PIP payments as well as the overall pool?
I don't think that's the big picture solution, but I think that certainly could and should be part of it.
quote:
And tbh, I have no idea how the methodology of how they determine that top 10 as is
No one does outside the walls of the Tour office.
The fact is, golf is an entertainment product just like every other sport. The competition on the field of play is obviously a huge part of that, but so are the characters and narratives as well. And guys that fit the latter aren't being justly compensated making the league ripe for the picking to outside competition. Is LIV the answer, it's certainly debatable, but if LIV isn't it, there could be another entity to come along and kill the Tour.
Those are just the facts whether you are the biggest Tour or LIV fan in the world. The Tour's seemingly inability to evolve from an antiquated organization that came to maturity in the 1980's is killing them
This post was edited on 8/10/22 at 2:09 pm
Posted on 8/10/22 at 2:17 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
The fact is, golf is an entertainment product just like every other sport. The competition on the field of play is obviously a huge part of that, but so are the characters and narratives as well.
Sounds like you want the WWE and PGA Tour to mix into one entity.
quote:
Is LIV the answer, it's certainly debatable, but if LIV isn't it, there could be another entity to come along and kill the Tour.
None of these players would have left if it wasn't for these insane paydays that no Tour could afford to offer. There was hardly anything wrong with the PGA Tour before the Saudis came into this. LIV isn't true competition since the Saudis will probably never get an actual monetary ROI. I would welcome a true competitor that was looking to make a ROI.
Posted on 8/10/22 at 2:25 pm to RedHawk
quote:
Sounds like you want the WWE and PGA Tour to mix into one entity.
I do not, not even close
quote:
None of these players would have left if it wasn't for these insane paydays that no Tour could afford to offer.
Just my opinion, but I disagree. I think a lot of these guys wouldn't have left if the Tour would have been proactive in making any change and getting in the same zip code as LIV financially. Or shite, at least been honest about what they could do. Most of these guys (outside of Phil and DJ who just want money) don't want to deal with the shite storm PR nightmare they've had to.
quote:
There was hardly anything wrong with the PGA Tour before the Saudis came into this.
Just because you weren't aware of it or it wasn't in the forefront doesn't mean it didn't exist
quote:
LIV isn't true competition since the Saudis will probably never get an actual monetary ROI. I would welcome a true competitor that was looking to make a ROI.
This has been a talking point, but again, I don't think it's true. Just because you don't make money for a few years doesn't mean you don't want to make money.
Tons of companies lost billions before they started making money, that's how startups work. Just because you have a shite ton of capital on the front end doesn't mean you aren't looking to recoup that capital.
Maybe they won't and in that case I think LIV fails and they shut down the operation. But a couple billion dollar investment on the front end isn't really that large if you can secure a media deal for a billion a year.
You can judge LIV on the 4 tournaments they've had. If you want to make an honest assessment you have to look at what they plan to be in a year, 5 years, 10 years, etc. At least to me, the franchise model with dedicated teams, some by country like a Japanese team, is a pretty interesting concept that I would be interest in.
Posted on 8/10/22 at 2:49 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Those are just the facts whether you are the biggest Tour or LIV fan in the world. The Tour's seemingly inability to evolve from an antiquated organization that came to maturity in the 1980's is killing them
Is it killing them though? New record tv contract. Several events this year had record viewership and participation. Parity is high and so is the talent level. Honestly it's a catch 22 .. most of the elite players have so much money that outside the majors and WGCs Players and playoffs that they are playing just a select few events.. I wish they played more...But that also allows new talent to feel develop.
Point is .. There still seems be a lot of people that enjoy this current PGA Tour
Posted on 8/10/22 at 2:57 pm to SuperOcean
quote:
Is it killing them though?
They just lost the European Ryder cup captain, the #2 ranked player in the world who is also the reigning champion of their flag ship event, and their rookie of the year (reportedly on the last 2)
7 of the top 10 most popular players by their own rankings are now on a rival tour.
Dead, maybe not. Maybe I was a little too strong there. But I'd be sweating if I were them
Posted on 8/10/22 at 3:55 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
7 of the top 10 most popular players by their own rankings are now on a rival tour.
Dead, maybe not. Maybe I was a little too strong there. But I'd be sweating if I were them
This becomes the chicken or the egg question. Who made who? I woould think that The PGA Tour are willing
To put it's competitive balanced and relatable history format as the avenue for golfer popularity ...In the world's largest golf market. That...Brooks DJ Bryson will sting.. But will be replaced. Overseas there might be some difference ...as the LIV is more focused there. Playing a handful of times in US timezones...and things become geographically undesirable... Especially with the weeks/ month breaks in action
Posted on 8/10/22 at 3:59 pm to SuperOcean
quote:
This becomes the chicken or the egg question. Who made who?
Doesn't matter now. They're the biggest names in the game, whether the Tour made them that is irrelevant at this point. They are guys people to turn the TV on to watch and they play on a different tour
PS why do you type like Peej? It's very hard to follow
This post was edited on 8/10/22 at 4:00 pm
Posted on 8/10/22 at 5:53 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Doesn't matter now. They're the biggest names in the game, whether the Tour made them that is irrelevant at this point. They are guys people to turn the TV on to watch and they play on a different tour
It absolutely matters.. Are they transcendent or are the the most popular golfers on the PGA tour. I would say the transcendent one got offered nearly a billion and turned it down... The others are really good
ETA. I'm in Buenos Aires 15 yrs ago and on the way from the airport, I see tiger woods on a bill board. In a golf lacking country..Tiger is there as a recognizable face. Phil might get noticed but.... Every other LIV player is not recognizable out side of what tour promotion / golf magazines
No idea who peej is... But I hate typing on a phone
This post was edited on 8/10/22 at 6:00 pm
Posted on 8/10/22 at 6:51 pm to SuperOcean
quote:
It absolutely matters.. Are they transcendent or are the the most popular golfers on the PGA tour. I would say the transcendent one got offered nearly a billion and turned it down... The others are really good
ETA. I'm in Buenos Aires 15 yrs ago and on the way from the airport, I see tiger woods on a bill board. In a golf lacking country..Tiger is there as a recognizable face. Phil might get noticed but.... Every other LIV player is not recognizable out side of what tour promotion / golf magazines
You realize you can watch LIV outside of the US right?
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