re: Lost Ark

“Loot” in this game takes third seat to leveling up your skills, Runes, and engravings that require you to uhhhh, play.

It's a P2W game to it's core.

P2W doesn't just mean you will be better than somebody who grinds the game to the fullest. Pay to win means you can just pay to make the game easier or faster.

FF has nothing like any of that garbage above.

The only thing it has ever had was expansion pack boosters to catch up to the min level needed to play the new content. Because you know the game has been out for 10 years and new players join to play an expansion.

I cannot speak for the other games.

Umm you can literally pay to skip 90% of the game in FF. Pay to skip to the end. I know. I’ve done it. Lol.

I feel like you haven’t even tried Ark yet. If you have you would see what you “can” pay for is rather in-significant.

Or, go to Reddit. Let the Koreans tell you. All their feedback is that it’s not.

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I feel like you're being quite harsh. The only real benefit you gain from that is the free teleports (and the cost of teleporting is like FF14, it's not a ton) and ability to improve your trade professions faster. None of those things give you an big advantage over other players (let alone something to justify pay to win).

The cash shop is for mounts and skins primarily.

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All of that stronghold booster stuff helps speed things up in the endgame from my understanding. It is all useful. Obviously I am not there, but everything I have read about it says it is.

Its comparable to WOW IMO.

But I classify both as Pay For Convince.

For me, where I draw the line is in PVP. If you can pay for an advantage with gold or money its a no go, but you can't in any regard as its all normalized.

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The definition is not the same to all of us.

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True enough.

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So wow is pay to win? League? FF?

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Did you seriously not think WoW was pay to win when you can literally just buy a token to pay for raiding gear?

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Bringing your character to beginning of the current expansion is not paying to win. You're literally just skipping story content. It doesn't provide you an advantage (in fact a massive disadvantage as you didn't progress through the organically so you have no idea how to use your skills).

Pay to win is spending real money so that you have an advantage over other players or you have to spend money in order to win. That does not exist in Final Fantasy XIV. The closest comparison to that is buying more retainers, but it's just more inventory space and hardly necessary at all.

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Pay2Win is just as easily applied to skipping content as you're saving yourself the sometimes hundreds of hours required to reach the same game state as the other player. FF you can straight up just skip all of your leveling, job, and MAIN STORY quests. You're literally paying to have the game level your character up for you and complete the game quicker. Trying to mental gymnastics that into "it's not pay2win" is next level denial. It's pay2win in WoW, it's pay2win in FF, it's pay2win in every MMO that offers you the ability to pay to not play their game. It's literally paying so you have to do less than everyone else for the same rewards.

I refuse to let this braindead logic catch on. You lazy fricks are taking advantage of pay2win mechanics. Just admit it.