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re: Why are tomatoes absent in Cajun cuisine?

Posted on 10/9/18 at 7:49 am to
Posted by hungryone
river parishes
Member since Sep 2010
11987 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 7:49 am to
RE: tomatoes in gumbo, the late, lamented Randolph’s Restaurant in Golden Meadow used tomatoes in its gumbo. It was run by the same folks for umpteen years, and the last owner/chef teaches at the John Folse culinary school at Nicholls State in Thibodaux. He’s a Cheramie, and I’m not gonna tell a Cheramie from Golden Meadow that he’s wrong for putting tomatoes in his gumbo, just like his daddy did.

People are too hung up on food rules. I don’t personally put tomatoes in my gumbo, but I ate many a cup of Randolph’s seafood gumbo back in the day, and all were delicious.
Posted by Thias2685
Member since Sep 2012
2671 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 7:54 am to
Cajun cuisine does include tomatoes but they just aren't included in dishes where they shouldn't be.
Posted by OTIS2
NoLA
Member since Jul 2008
50227 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 7:55 am to
Lotus Club in Mecca has a little chopped tomato in its seafood gumbo. It’s very good.
Posted by mmmmmbeeer
ATL
Member since Nov 2014
7461 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 8:22 am to
You piqued my curiosity a bit and got me to reading on this subject. It's actually true that traditional Cajun cooking did not include many tomatoes, at all. They were, as someone said earlier, very expensive and not widely available.

That's not to say they never used them but it does mean the guy earlier who said Cajuns were too poor to use them regularly is pretty spot on.
Posted by bdevill
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Mar 2008
11809 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 8:39 am to
quote:

bayou cajun shrimp spaghetti


Creole Seafood Meatballs and Sauce

1 lb Louisiana crawfish
1 lb of shrimp
Clean and devein shrimp, set aside/reserve a handful of whole peeled and deveined shrimp

Using shrimp shells, make 3-4 cups of Shrimp Stock:
4 cups water
1 teaspoon of Zatarain’s crab boil
1/2 bell pepper
Stalk of celery
Onion
Garlic

In a food processor, Pulse the shrimp and crawfish tails to slightly chop and blend.
Reserve a handful of the chopped crawfish and shrimp mixture and set aside.

Put remaining chopped shrimp and crawfish in a mixing bowl.

Add:
2 tbsp chopped Fresh Parsley
1 Small-Med Onion
4 pods Garlic
1 stalk Celery
1/2 Bell pepper
1 egg beaten
Salt
Black pepper
Red pepper
Garlic powder
Homemade Breadcrumbs

For the Homemade Breadcrumbs:
3 slices of honey wheat bread
1 Tbsp. of Parmesan cheese
In a food processor, chop into breadcrumbs

Form the crawfish and shrimp mixture into meatballs.
Dust meatballs with a little flour.
Bake at 350 for 15 minutes

For the Gravy:
3/4 stick of butter
Heaping Tbsp of flour
1/2 Chopped onion
Garlic
Parsley
3 Bay leaves
Thyme
Sauté til al dente
Add the reserved, chopped crawfish and shrimp mixture
1 Small bottle of Hunts ketchup
1 Tbsp. tomato paste
Slowly add your prepared shrimp stock
Cook about 30 mins on low

Add meatballs and reserved raw shrimp into gravy Cook on low for 10 more minutes until whole shrimp are cooked

Serve on top of Linguine or Angel Hair Pasta
Posted by bdevill
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Mar 2008
11809 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 9:02 am to
quote:

the guy earlier who said Cajuns were too poor to use them regularly is pretty spot on.


Cajuns grew and canned pretty much everything they ate, that's true, but there are many Cajuns today, who don't have a lot of money but have big gardens full of tomatoes and don't put tomatoes in their gumbo.
I think the areas where Cajuns settled have a stronger influence on the cooking than wealth or lack thereof.. Down the Bayou Cajuns have more Italian and Spanish influence and Prairie Cajuns have more German.. and German dishes use very little tomatoes.
Posted by andouille
A table near a waiter.
Member since Dec 2004
10738 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 9:27 am to
quote:

People are too hung up on food rules.


Truer words have never been spoken. I don't put tomatoes in gumbo, but I have had very good gumbo with them. I think jambalaya with tomatoes is much more vibrant and tasty.
Posted by andouille
A table near a waiter.
Member since Dec 2004
10738 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 10:00 am to
quote:

Cajuns grew and canned pretty much everything they ate, that's true, but there are many Cajuns today, who don't have a lot of money but have big gardens full of tomatoes and don't put tomatoes in their gumbo.


Interesting, I wonder if the Cajuns in Des Allemands, who are German heritage, are more like the prairie Cajuns or the bayou Cajuns?
Posted by Tigertown in ATL
Georgia foothills
Member since Sep 2009
29209 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 10:02 am to
quote:

People are too hung up on food rules.


Truer words have never been spoken.


Without food rules, how will anyone know who to make fun of for what they like and where they eat?
Posted by andouille
A table near a waiter.
Member since Dec 2004
10738 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 10:43 am to
quote:

Without food rules, how will anyone know who to make fun of for what they like and where they eat?


LOL Yep, true. Some food rules make sense, like don't call it a po'boy if it is on soft, mushy bread, it may be good, but it isn't a po'boy. It not a King CAKE if it's a big fried donut with yellow, green and purple sugar on it, it's a King donut.
Posted by mmmmmbeeer
ATL
Member since Nov 2014
7461 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 11:12 am to
quote:

Cajuns grew and canned pretty much everything they ate, that's true, but there are many Cajuns today, who don't have a lot of money but have big gardens full of tomatoes and don't put tomatoes in their gumbo.
I think the areas where Cajuns settled have a stronger influence on the cooking than wealth or lack thereof.. Down the Bayou Cajuns have more Italian and Spanish influence and Prairie Cajuns have more German.. and German dishes use very little tomatoes.



I think it's just a matter of what your definition of "Cajun" is. The article I was reading, and a subject I believe Bourdain also touched on when he was down there, was that the original Cajuns were Acadian (French Canadian) exiles. It's these early days of Cajun settlements and beginning of cooking traditions I'm referring to when saying they didn't use many tomatoes.

I don't doubt that as the Cajuns became assimilated and bred with other ethnicities in LA that their food and crops became more diverse. But when they first arrived, the Acadians were understandably poor as shite and likely new to some staples like tomatoes, etc. The foods they cooked in those early days, many recipes still probably around today, were much simpler and less exotic than the more established and urban Creole population in and around NOLA and its ports.
Posted by hungryone
river parishes
Member since Sep 2010
11987 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:02 pm to
quote:

I don't doubt that as the Cajuns became assimilated and bred with other ethnicities in LA that their food and crops became more diverse. But when they first arrived, the Acadians were understandably poor as shite and likely new to some staples like tomatoes, etc. The foods they cooked in those early days, many recipes still probably around today, were much simpler and less exotic than the more established and urban Creole population in and around NOLA and its ports.

Very, very little of “early” style cajun cooking survives—those early settlers did not cling to the foodways of the Canadian Maritimes or of Brittany (where many of them either originally emigrated from, or where they went for a generation or two after leaving Nova Scotia before then emigrating to Louisiana. They found themselves in a completely new place: different seasons, different plants, different animals & fish. They found a place with pretty rich food resources, and they (like poor people everywhere) starting cooking and eating what they found nearby, and they’re hugely influenced by the Native American and West African foodways being practiced by their native & enslaved neighbors.

Frankly, we give short shrift to the immense African influences in Cajun food. The idea of “something soupy/stewy served over rice” (or other bland staple starch) is a basic idea of West African food. It’s not French, it’s not Spanish. Go scour cookbooks for stuff over rice in those cultures—recipes will be few & far between, while it’s an everyday thing to eat stuff over rice all over West Africa....which has an ancient rice growing culture. West Africa also has a still-flourishing and well documented historical deep frying tradition (far more pronounced than France or Spain in the colonial period).

Something else to ponder is that many (most?) of the people today who consider themselves “Cajun” are not genealogically descended from Acadian settlers. Plenty of people in Lafayette area & lots who settled the Cajun prairies were French colonials, not actual Acadians. And the self-identification as Cajun is largely an outgrowth of ethnic pride movements that proliferated during the 1960s—before that, many in south LA did not self-identify using the term Cajun.

South LA’s foodways are deeply creolized (note the small c)....ie, a blend of several cutlures, derived from colonial and colonized, enslaved and native, with lots of borrowing, exchange, and recombination. It’s not a codified system of haute cuisine, with published dictionaries of recipes and rules about cuisine....it’s a folk practice, alive and changing, absorbing and shifting to adapt to new influences (like deep fried boudin balls stuffed with pepper jack cheese, or pastalaya, or Viet-Cajun boiled crawfish).

It’s a living tradition, in the hands of the people who cook the food....not in a book, not in rules found on a message board. It’s only a thing as long as we keep DOING it.

Cook on.



Posted by bdevill
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Mar 2008
11809 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:11 pm to
quote:

likely new to some staples like tomatoes




The French settlers that left France to settle in Nova Scotia were from the western part of central France. My French ancestors were from Bordeaux and were wine makers. Although the Acadians were butchered, sold into slavery and put on ships to the far reaches of the globe, and survived the horrors of hell, they were not strangers to produce. They're Cajuns, not Cavemen.
This post was edited on 10/9/18 at 3:11 pm
Posted by mmmmmbeeer
ATL
Member since Nov 2014
7461 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:23 pm to
quote:

hungryone


Great post, man. Appreciate you digging in. Totally agree that African influences are underappreciated and unacknowledged...and that goes for more cuisines than just Creole and Cajun.
Posted by hungryone
river parishes
Member since Sep 2010
11987 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 1:10 pm to
quote:

Historically, there were only a few places Catholics were welcomed in the U.S. NOLA was one of them.

What’s your source for this assertion? And are you referring to a particular time period? There were many hundreds of thousands of Catholic immigrants to the US who went all over the place...from the Irish in the NE to the Czechs in east TX to the many Catholic Germans all over the upper Midwest.

RE: Italian immigration, at one point NOLA was second only to Brooklyn in terms of Italian immigration, but the #3 port of embarkation for Italian immigrants was Galveston, TX. The difference between NE US and Gulf Coast Italian immigration was the origin point of the immigrants: NE US saw lots of Italians from up and down the boot, whereas those coming to the Gulf Coast were primarily Sicilian and very southern Italians.

Yes to the idea that Italian influences in food/cooking are found all over LA, but primarily clustered in NOLA and in Tangipahoa Parish (home to the largest rural Italian farming community in the US for the first half of the 20th century).
Posted by bdevill
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Mar 2008
11809 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 1:35 pm to
quote:

the Cajuns in Des Allemands, who are German heritage


Depends.. Did the Acadians in Des Allemands assimilate and marry into an existing German community, or do they claim a German ethnicity prior to the expulsion? Because to my knowledge, the Acadian immigrants who were expelled from Nova Scotia were French.

eta:
Found the answer to my own question: From the time of their arrival, the German immigrants began speaking French and intermarried with the early French settlers. Over the subsequent decades they intermarried with the descendants of the latter as well as the Acadians. Together with other settlers, they helped create Cajun culture.

So.. I would suppose that the Cajun culture in Des Allemands more closely resembles the Cajun culture in the area, which would be the Bayou Cajuns.
This post was edited on 10/9/18 at 1:50 pm
Posted by andouille
A table near a waiter.
Member since Dec 2004
10738 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 2:25 pm to
I agree about the African component is usually underappreciated, of course everyone know that the word 'gumbo' itself comes from one of the African languages for okra. But ethnicities always seem to be quickly assimilated into the food culture, more quickly it seems than the people themselves. Look at how rapidly we have brought the Vietnamese culture into the kitchen.

In Baton Rouge, because of LSU and the oil industry, Middle Eastern and Indian restaurants have thrived. Many of these dishes from falafels and hummus to tikki masala and butter chicken are on my regular make at home rotation.
Posted by bdevill
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Mar 2008
11809 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 2:51 pm to

Okra actually comes from Africa. The seeds were sewn into the children's clothes so that if they were captured, they would have it wherever they were taken.
Posted by browl
North of BR
Member since Nov 2017
1571 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 3:00 pm to
Maybe someone should list out dishes that are actually cajun and dishes that are actually creole. That would be the first place to start with identifying whether or not cajuns cook with tomatoes.
Posted by hungryone
river parishes
Member since Sep 2010
11987 posts
Posted on 10/9/18 at 3:21 pm to
You can’t make exclusive lists of cajun vs creole. There is beaucoup crossover, and you can’t even get agreement in who Creoles are: there are white city Creoles in NOLA who are descended from French & Spanish colonials, rural French speaking folks of African descent who don’t feel comfortable being called Cajun (or who were denied the “cajun” label because of their skin color), a whole separate pocket of mixed race “Cane River Creoles”.......

You can speak broadly of Creole as a city style versus Cajun as a country style....and then you can add Italian Creole as a subset of New Orleans cuisine. But in contemporary cooking, there is so much cross pollination, sharing, and borrowing that the labels aren’t terribly useful.
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