re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II

a few Chapters in to Scotts book. I have some ideas on how to hone my flavors in. Im itching to get to the other chapters.

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CarRamrod

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I'm going to post my last recipe and brew process, let me know if something stands out, because i'm still not satisfied with my NEIPA's.

Water
9.75 total gallons Baton Rouge water (with a balanced sulfate/chloride profile)

Mash Salts
4.88g CaCl
2.17g Epsom Salt
1.84g Gypsum
.5 tbsp 88% Lactic acid to get mash Ph to 5.3

Sparge Salts
5.8g CaCl
2.59g Epsom Salt
2.18g Gypsum

Grains
7 lbs (49%) 2 Row
2.75 lbs (19.3%) Golden Promise
2.25 lbs (15.8%) Carapils
2.25 lbs (15.8%) Oat Malt

Hops
1 oz Citra - Mash
1 oz Citra - Boil 20 min
2 oz. Idaho 7 - Whirlpool @ 180, 25 min
1 oz. Citra - Whirlpool @ 180, 25 min
2 oz. Citra - biotrans hops added Day 2/3 of ferm
1 oz. galaxy - biotrans hops added Day 2/3 of ferm
1 oz. Idaho 7 - biotrans hops added Day 2/3 of ferm
2 oz citra - Dry hop 3 days
2 oz galaxy - dry hop 3 days
1 oz idaho 7 - dry hop 3 days

Yeast
Bootleg Biology Chardonnay

Session Data
Mash @ 152 for 60 minutes
Fly Sparge
83% Mash efficiency
OG - 1.062
FG - did not take measurement, fermented for 9-10 days. Fermentation did take off slow, despite using a starter. Wasn't until 36 hours later did i see fermentation activity.
Cold crashed for 2 days before kegging.
Closed transfer to purged keg. Removed the keg lid only to see to check volume inside keg. Purged keg once filled, then rolled around to mix in the 32 psi of force carb.
Let force carb @ 32 psi for 24 hours, reduced carbonation to 14-15 psi for 2 days. Transferred keg to kegerator, and kept serving pressure @ 8-9 psi. Currently @ day 5 of being in the keg.

Appearance/Flavor
- Appears darker than i expected. I do not believe it is oxidized, however, because it is not brown, just very hazy at the moment. First pour on first day in kegerator, and the foam was even slightly green. Tasted it day 2, and it was very young. Tasted it yesterday and it's starting to smooth out. It is more bitter than my previous batches, that could be due to the higher whirlpool temps extracting alpha acids.

A few things i know i will do differently
1) Break up the 5 oz dry hop into a 3 oz dry hop, and a 2-3 oz. keg hop.
2) Lower whirlpool temp
3) Try a different yeast.
4) May or may not eliminate the 1 oz mash hop. The intent of the mash hop, per Janish's book, is that this hop during the mash, reduces some of the manganese content of the grains, further limiting oxygen pickup chances.
5) May go back to flaked oats instead of oat malt. I switched to oat malt, again, due to the manganese content of flaked oats.
6) Lower the amount of oats/carapils to a combined total of no more than 12%.

ETA: Looking back at some of my previous recipes and one NEIPA in particular i really liked and some differences.

- Flaked oats instead of malted oats, at a much smaller amount (4% flaked oats/4% carapils as opposed to 15%/15% oat malt to carapils.
- Used WLP067 Coastal Haze Yeast
- Had a biotrans, and 2 additional dry hop additions.
- OG - 1.065, FG - 1.016, 6.5% ABV
- had a 25 IBU First Wort hop addition

another ETA: I believe the bolded is the most notable difference and could be the cause for a maltier flavor component and suppression of some of the hop notes.

I have been struggling on my last 2 NEIPAs as well. They are too green when they are first ready to drink, and by the time that they have settled, they are beginning to oxidize... I have a couple changes I am going to implement on my next try. I'm determined to get the process down.

I did a quick glance, in a bit ill dive a little deeper but im in a workshop. the 2 glaring things i see are your water and yeast. I wont do a NEIPA without RO water anymore and build form there. i can send you and example Bru'n spread sheet of one of my recipes before i moved completely to BS3.

Next is yeast. I tried chardonnay and didnt get a good texture. my Go to is still London 3, with a huge starter. Vermont IPA is decent but in a head to head I thought London 3 just had a better texture and flavor.

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. They are too green when they are first ready to drink, and by the time that they have settled, they are beginning to oxidize...

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ARe you kegging or bottling? If bottling, it's really hard to prevent oxidation in that style. If you have access to CO2 and some homebrew kegs, then you can do a closed transfer system, which works out very well for my purposes. My last 5 or so NEIPA's have never had trouble with oxidation. My 2nd to last NEIPA sat in the keg for maybe 3-4 months before i needed to make room for something else, and it never oxidized.

I also see you are using a ton of carapils. one of my recipes i pulled up was 8oz in a 10 gallon batch. It has a low lovibond but i have noticed it add more color than what beersmith and its 1.5 number says.

Also try adding some flaked wheat and or white wheat. I have almost 10% wheat in my recipes.

on to hop schedule. never done mash hopping yet so ill ignore that. IDK what IBUS your getting with 1oz of citra at 20 for a 5 gallon batch but i use in the realm of 10-12 IBUS in boiling. Are you beers more bitter than you want?

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Are you beers more bitter than you want?

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The last couple were. But previous were fine. I aim for around 20 IBU's in the boil.

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whirlpooling at 110 instead of 170. That's all I've go

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i wouldnt. this book im reading that Bug has read referencing studies show whirlpooling at hight temps are better for both aroma and flavor than lower temps.

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My NEIPA was awesome for like 3 weeks and then it hit the wall with no signs of oxidation.

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well i think this is typical. I can see a nocticable flavor reduction in my from 2-4 weeks plus. I believe this is a reason that the NEIPA style will never be a major beer in macro breweries because of its shelf life. I see it in my NEIPAs where they are in prime flavor about 1-2 weeks after kegging and will last for about 2 weeks and then is degrades. still drinkable, just not fresh and robust. Another observation is tasting a nice pint of Ghost at the tap room, is very nice, yet you buy a 4 pack thats a couple weeks old and it is less than mediocre.

I will say i have never really had an oxidation issue with my neipas.

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Option 1. We were talking of waiting until it gets near freezing (so probably a small window in January/February) and brewing out there, and cooling in the ambient open air temps before transferring to a fermenter.
Option 2 - Less risky, but make some wort and put them in some jars with a cheese cloth and place them in various spots around the mound/property. Then prop up these batches a bit and see what happens. If it tastes/smells great, then continue propping up the starter and dumping, like you do a sourdough starter until its strong enough to ferment a beer. This process may take much longer than option a, but may be more effective.

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That's what I'd do. I've done option #1 before and it came out super band-aidy. Sucks to do that all that work and wait a year for it to be a dumper. I'd rather go in knowing what the outcome would probably be.