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Camel Back/Add On Process

Posted on 9/28/21 at 12:46 pm
Posted by Saskwatch
Member since Feb 2016
17526 posts
Posted on 9/28/21 at 12:46 pm
Looking into adding a camel back or something similar to increase space in our house for the young ones. Has anyone gone through the process or can someone provide insight on the order of who I need to talk to to get it started? Budget first? Design first?

I need help with a flow chart in consulting the below

Architect
Contractor
Structural Engineer
Bank

Posted by modes
Member since May 2017
272 posts
Posted on 9/28/21 at 1:08 pm to
Get an idea of the amount of space (sf) you need and what you can realistically swing with your budget. Then consult an architect to make it reality. Architect will bring in the engineer if necessary. Be honest with the architect about your budget. If you don't give them anything to work with, then they can't possibly give you a realistic expectation. $100/sf is way different than $200/sf.

Architect may have recommendations of contractors to use.

Contact bank after you have an idea of what your costs may be to figure out the right process for you and your family.

Also, the market is nuts right now, so expect to pay 10-20% more than you think you will.
Posted by junkfunky
Member since Jan 2011
35076 posts
Posted on 9/28/21 at 4:21 pm to
What's a camel back?
Posted by tenfoe
Member since Jun 2011
6918 posts
Posted on 9/28/21 at 4:52 pm to
I'm in the process of an addition at this very moment. I'll tell you what I know.

#1 - I don't know what a camel back is

#2 - I reached out to a couple of my friends that are in the construction business (electricians, plumbers, and painters) and asked who they'd recommend as a contractor. One name was repeated multiple times. I called him and he came by one day to talk. We talked about what I thought I was looking for and what he thought was feasible. He had some ideas better than mine. I then drew up what I thought I wanted and sent it to him. He sent me a cost based on what I asked for and what I was either going to do myself or hire out myself. We agreed on a price and I asked him to start.

I'll be honest though, I was fortunate that the financial part of it worked out in my favor. I know a lot of times additions aren't really worth what they are worth.

If you are just looking to spend a bunch of money and get it done, go with paying someone to draw up what you want then sending that out to some contractors for bids. If you just want to find out what your options/limitations are based on your existing structure and estimated budget, find some local contractors to come give you opinions. I'll warn you though, depending where you are there is a substantial labor shortage at the moment. My guy is behind through no fault of his own at the moment just because laborers were in short supply before the storm, now everyone with a little bit of initiative is making hay in the sunshine.

In regard to financing, there are multiple options for borrowing money for these types of things. Most everyone knows someone in the home loan business. Reach out to one and ask what your options are. Depending on where you are in your current mortgage, money needed for addition, loan length tolerances, etc., you'll have to make that decision for yourself.

Unless you are talking about something of significant size or value, or have a tricky foundation issue, it's likely you don't need an engineer.
Posted by Drunken Crawfish
Member since Apr 2017
3857 posts
Posted on 9/28/21 at 5:06 pm to
Agree with all below except:

quote:

Unless you are talking about something of significant size or value, or have a tricky foundation issue, it's likely you don't need an engineer.


From my understanding a camel back is adding a second story on top of a portion of your house to increase square footage. You will 100% need a structural engineer to review plans to make sure your walls can support an additional story and what support structures need to be in place.

If you are just adding on to the back of your house without adding anything on top you shouldn't need an engineer.

For financing, we did a cash-out refi for our project and actually locked in a rate lower than what we were originally paying so our monthly payment changed very little.
This post was edited on 9/28/21 at 5:07 pm
Posted by tenfoe
Member since Jun 2011
6918 posts
Posted on 9/28/21 at 7:25 pm to
quote:

From my understanding a camel back is adding a second story on top of a portion of your house to increase square footage. You will 100% need a structural engineer to review plans to make sure your walls can support an additional story and what support structures need to be in place.


If this is the case, I agree an engineer should be consulted. I had never heard of a camel back.
Posted by junkfunky
Member since Jan 2011
35076 posts
Posted on 9/28/21 at 8:16 pm to
quote:

If this is the case, I agree an engineer should be consulted.


There are still some residential architects that know how to determine load paths and read span tables but it isn't taught in school and/or younger architects aren't learning how to from the old school guys. However, an architect can and often does design structural elements per code.

All this to say, I do residential structural design on the side and I would never contact an engineer first. Contractor perhaps but you want to make sure it looks good before anything. Even if that is getting an architect to give you design ideas or just schematics that you could then give to a contractor. Then get some preliminary pricing done and decide if you want to continue with the architect. You're going to need drawings for permitting but it's possible the contractor has a drafter he regularly uses.

ETA:

A lot is gonna depend on where you want this "camel back" including the location relative to existing load-bearing walls but more importantly the existing foundation where the loads are sent. Chances are you are looking at having to cut out some slab and pour new footings or reinforce existing ones.
This post was edited on 9/28/21 at 8:27 pm
Posted by bee Rye
New orleans
Member since Jan 2006
34191 posts
Posted on 9/28/21 at 9:14 pm to
It might be cheaper to tear down your house and rebuild
Posted by gumbo2176
Member since May 2018
18081 posts
Posted on 9/29/21 at 8:15 am to
quote:

What's a camel back?


Take a normal 1 story shotgun house and toward the rear you go up another floor to add more square footage. That is a camelback house.
Posted by gumbo2176
Member since May 2018
18081 posts
Posted on 9/29/21 at 8:20 am to
Well to get a fairly accurate budget, you need to have your design in place. No sense saying you want to do a $125K renovation/add-on and design something that is twice that much.

Start off with what you want to spend, design around that to come up with the budget.

If a raised house, you will need to find out if the current foundation will support a 2nd floor.

Your ceiling joists in the rooms you want to build over will have to be sized larger to support the additional weight of another story on the house. That will include a good bit of electrical work, A/C duct work, possibly plumbing in the existing space plus what you'll need in the addition.

Not going to be cheap.
Posted by gumbo2176
Member since May 2018
18081 posts
Posted on 9/29/21 at 8:32 am to
quote:

It might be cheaper to tear down your house and rebuild



Don't know about cheaper, but definitely way less mess to deal with, especially if living in the house while the work is being done.

I've had 2 friends add 2nd floors on their existing homes, both on slabs and after the work was done, they said they'd never do that again and would sell then look for a bigger house.
This post was edited on 9/29/21 at 8:33 am
Posted by Saskwatch
Member since Feb 2016
17526 posts
Posted on 9/29/21 at 9:26 am to
quote:

#1 - I don't know what a camel back is


Adding a second story to back half of house.

Thanks all for advices. We are basically running through a cost analysis practice at this point. Not sure if adding an additional 1000sh sq ft. to our house would better suit our needs vs. simply buying new.

Basically looking to add two childrens bedrooms, a "play room area", and bathroom in upstairs addition and use the two existing bedrooms as a guestroom and office

quote:

No sense saying you want to do a $125K renovation/add-on and design something that is twice that much


Absolutely agree. That's why we are trying to get a base design and sq ft 1st to determine budget. basic math says it may be around $200k for the square ft. addition. I think we can likely get away with less sq feet but need to get a design down first.

House is currently a 3 bedroom 2 1/2 bath 1700 sq ft. Addition might expand to 5 bedroom 3 1/2 bath around 2700 sq ft.
This post was edited on 9/29/21 at 9:32 am
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