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re: OT Electrician advice needed: running 110v off of 220v line

Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:02 pm to
Posted by Specktricity
Lafayette
Member since May 2011
1246 posts
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:02 pm to
I disagree, if he has an existing 240V circuit then he has at least 3 conductors. That would be sufficient for H-N-G 120V circuit. He just needs to make sure he sizes the 1 pole breaker correctly for the wire size.
Posted by TTU97NI
Celina, TX
Member since Mar 2017
1144 posts
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:05 pm to
220 - 221 what ever it takes
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
26144 posts
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:09 pm to
quote:

I disagree, if he has an existing 240V circuit then he has at least 3 conductors.


Not necessarily. There are plenty of 2 conductors plus ground 240v circuits in homes.

quote:

He just needs to make sure he sizes the 1 pole breaker correctly for the wire size.


He already said he needs 240v out of the circuit as well which means he needs to leave the circuit intact until the 240v outlet. Then he has to have a breaker in line to protect the 120v circuit (wire and device which I assume will be a duplex receptacle). The box is going to have to be located to meet NEC/Local code for access. Whatever is plugged into the 120v circuit is going to have to not ruan afoul of code for appliances required to be on their own circuit.
Posted by td1
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2015
2854 posts
Posted on 7/7/21 at 4:19 pm to
The correct way would be to run a new 120V circuit to where you need the new outlet, or to tie into an existing 120V circuit near where the outlet needs to go. An electrician will be able to check if you can add the outlet to a nearby circuit or if you will need a new run.

The Oven circuit needs to be a dedicated circuit. The NEC will let you run a range and a oven on the same circuit, provided they do not exceed the circuit's rating. Not all municipalities will allow that though.

The sub panel thing won't fly bc it is very doubtful that the existing wiring has the capacity to remain compliant in running both the oven and the new branch circuit.

If you just want to blow money, they could probably put in a sufficiently sized run / sub panel.

I asked an electrician friend, he said to see 210.19, so I did, his explanation made more sense than the shite below:


210.19 Conductors — Minimum Ampacity and Size.
(A) Branch Circuits Not More Than 600 Volts.
Informational Note No. 1: See 310.15 for ampacity ratings of
conductors.
Informational Note No. 2: See Part II of Article 430 for mini-
mum rating of motor branch-circuit conductors.
Informational Note No. 3: See 310.15(A)(3) for temperature
limitation of conductors.
Informational Note No. 4: Conductors for branch circuits as
defined in Article 100, sized to prevent a voltage drop exceeding
3 percent at the farthest outlet of power, heating, and lighting
loads, or combinations of such loads, and where the maximum
total voltage drop on both feeders and branch circuits to the
farthest outlet does not exceed 5 percent, provide reasonable
efficiency of operation. See Informational Note No. 2 of
215.2(A)(1) for voltage drop on feeder conductors.
(1) General. Branch-circuit conductors shall have an ampacity
not less than the maximum load to be served. Conductors shall

N210.19 ARTICLE 210 — BRANCH CIRCUITS
70 –62 NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE 2017 Edition
be sized to carry not less than the larger of 210.19(A)(1)(a)
or (b).
(a) Where a branch circuit supplies continuous loads or
any combination of continuous and noncontinuous loads, the
minimum branch-circuit conductor size shall have an allowable
ampacity not less than the noncontinuous load plus
125 percent of the continuous load.
(b) The minimum branch-circuit conductor size shall
have an allowable ampacity not less than the maximum load to
be served after the application of any adjustment or correction
factors.
Exception: If the assembly, including the overcurrent devices protecting
the branch circuit(s), is listed for operation at 100 percent of its rating,
the allowable ampacity of the branch-circuit conductors shall be permit-
ted to be not less than the sum of the continuous load plus the noncon-
tinuous load.
(2) Branch Circuits with More than One Receptacle. Conduc-
tors of branch circuits supplying more than one receptacle for
cord-and-plug-connected portable loads shall have an ampacity
of not less than the rating of the branch circuit.
(3) Household Ranges and Cooking Appliances. Branchcircuit conductors supplying household ranges, wall-mounted
ovens, counter-mounted cooking units, and other household
cooking appliances shall have an ampacity not less than the
rating of the branch circuit and not less than the maximum
load to be served. For ranges of 83
/4 kW or more rating, the
minimum branch-circuit rating shall be 40 amperes.
Exception No. 1: Conductors tapped from a 50-ampere branch circuit
supplying electric ranges, wall-mounted electric ovens, and countermounted electric cooking units shall have an ampacity of not less than
20 amperes and shall be suf?cient for the load to be served. These tap
conductors include any conductors that are a part of the leads supplied
with the appliance that are smaller than the branch-circuit conductors.
The taps shall not be longer than necessary for servicing the appliance.
Exception No. 2: The neutral conductor of a 3-wire branch circuit
supplying a household electric range, a wall-mounted oven, or a
counter-mounted cooking unit shall be permitted to be smaller than the
ungrounded conductors where the maximum demand of a range of
8
3
/4-kW or more rating has been calculated according to Column C of
Table 220.55, but such conductor shall have an ampacity of not less
than 70 percent of the branch-circuit rating and shall not be smaller
than 10 AWG.
(4) Other Loads. Branch-circuit conductors that supply loads
other than those specified in 210.3 and other than cooking
appliances as covered in 210.19(A)(3) shall have an ampacity
sufficient for the loads served and shall not be smaller than
14 AWG.
Exception No. 1: Tap conductors shall have an ampacity suf?cient for
the load served. In addition, they shall have an ampacity of not less
than 15 for circuits rated less than 40 amperes and not less than 20 for
circuits rated at 40 or 50 amperes and only where these tap conductors
supply any of the following loads:
(a) Individual lampholders or luminaires with taps extending
not longer than 450 mm (18 in.) beyond any portion of the lampholder
or luminaire
(b) A luminaire having tap conductors as provided in 410.117
(c) Individual outlets, other than receptacle outlets, with taps
not over 450 mm (18 in.) long
(d) Infrared lamp industrial heating appliances
(e) Nonheating leads of deicing and snow-melting cables and
mats
Exception No. 2: Fixture wires and ?exible cords shall be permitted to be
smaller than 14 AWG as permitted by 240.5.


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