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re: Lets talk Yangs HC Plan
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:30 am to TOKEN
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:30 am to TOKEN
quote:
Says the complacent shills that believe unaffordable insurance = healthcare while pretending he’s not paying for others socialized medicine? Do you want better and more affordable healthcare?
You are dumb or you want us to subsidize you.
Liberal talking point "You are paying for others".
My insurance company is for profit , they aren't going to pay extra to cover for someone who doesn't pay.
0
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:32 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
American life expectancy has declined for the last 3 years running - that is the only stat anyone should need IMO.
Well your opinion would be wrong. There is a lot more to healthcare than life expectancy data. Heroin epidemic, higher suicide rates, a disproportionately large amount of deaths due to automobile rates, etc aren't represented in life expectancy. That has as much or more to do with the breakdown of the moral fiber than healthcare. We have the best cancer treatment in the world. We have the most innovation in the world. This is mostly because of the capitalistic nature of our system and to get completely away from that would be a nightmare.
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:32 am to Sidicous
quote:
Fair Market? Without my (individual or corporate) product there is no market. So whatever I want to charge for it is fair.
Fair market has a definition - its not me saying "this should be fair".
quote:
The fair market value is the price at which the property would change hands between a willing buyer and a willing seller, neither being under any compulsion to buy or to sell and both having reasonable knowledge of relevant facts. United States v. Cartwright, 411 U. S. 546, 93 S
This is a very hard thing to come up with relative to drug prices. So if you look at the worldwide market, the US shouldn't be paying higher than all the other countries.
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:35 am to nugget
quote:
eroin epidemic, higher suicide rates
Both related to mental health / healthcare.
quote:
, a disproportionately large amount of deaths due to automobile rate
US automobile deaths have spiked in recent years?
The US already pays more for healthcare and gets inferior results - you don't want to change that?
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:37 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
The US already pays more for healthcare and gets inferior results
What country do Americans with cancer travel to for treatment?
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:39 am to TOKEN
PBMs are one of the major problems in healthcare right now.
They manipulate formularies and steal money from the actual dispensaries.
PBM reform would go a long way in making the prescription drug market more solvent and bearable.
They manipulate formularies and steal money from the actual dispensaries.
PBM reform would go a long way in making the prescription drug market more solvent and bearable.
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:39 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
Both related to mental health / healthcare
Mental health, yes, but what does a government owning the means of production in the healthcare market have to do with it? Most people don't seek out help. Do you think artificially lowering psych professionals income is going to promote better results?
quote:
The US already pays more for healthcare and gets inferior results - you don't want to change that?
Inferior results is an opinion. If you come down with cancer or a disease, there is not place I'd rather be.
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:41 am to Smeg
quote:
quote:
The US already pays more for healthcare and gets inferior results
What country do Americans with cancer travel to for treatment?
Is cancer the only thing that matters? Yes, the advancement in cancer treatment is incredible and wonderful, but what is the cost in terms of mortality due to other factors as a result of the healthcare system.
The US gets inferior results taken in totality, including cancer treatment benefits, we are not getting a very good return on our investment.
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:42 am to nugget
quote:
Inferior results is an opinion. If you come down with cancer or a disease, there is not place I'd rather be.
Well if we disagree on that aspect of it, i.e. inferior results, the rest is really pointless to argue I guess.
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:43 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
I can't really speak to what current medicare rates are
Actually medicare isn't that bad from what I've seen. MediCAID is awful.
I just did an evaluation of cellulitis treatment in the ER using certain strategies.
State is Alabama.
Medicare reimbursed around $4000.
BCBS reimbursed around $1400
Medicaid reimbursed about $200. We would shut down in a month if every patient was medicaid.
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:43 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
The US gets inferior results taken in totality, including cancer treatment benefits, we are not getting a very good return on our investment.
What country has more cutting edge medical treatments? What country has more high end equipment readily available without a long waiting period? What country can you get an MRI or CAT scan faster than in the US?
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:46 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
Well if we disagree on that aspect of it, i.e. inferior results, the rest is really pointless to argue I guess.
Not really, you can try and explain to me why we have the best cancer treatments and innovation in the world and how that won't change because of socialism. You can also tell the class how artificially controlling prices won't be an economic nightmare like rent control.
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:48 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
but what is the cost in terms of mortality due to other factors as a result of the healthcare system.
Specifically, which instances are you talking about in this sentence?
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:52 am to Smeg
quote:
What country has more cutting edge medical treatments?
Oh... I know this... Mexico.
You can get some surgeries down there that doctors up here wouldn't dare perform.
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:52 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
No, I just want people / the gov't to be able to negotiate drug prices and pay in line with what the rest of the world pays. If a drug company refuses, then america should be able to force use of that patent to create the necessary drugs - again with fair market payment.
Okay, you are completely missing the boat here. What if there is a drug that the government wants to negotiate for and the company denies the price because it is too low?
We know the government won't allow that to happen so the next step will be for price fixing, and then you create the same issues that we have with the medicare/medicaid reimbursements with hospital care. It's just more cost shifting, and it will incentivize drug companies even more to mark up their prices because they will get reimbursed for the difference in what they charge and what the government is willing to pay.
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:53 am to nugget
I'm not talking about socialism, i'm talking about trying to curtail skyrocketing costs.
"Artificially controlling price" just means that US customers pay prices for prescription drugs in line with the rest of the developed world. I don't understand how / why people seem to enjoy getting fleeced by the drug companies?
Lets just boil this down to a simple question and however you answer, we can end this discussion as we clearly just disagree.
If everyone else is paying $100 for a drug is there a reason the US should pay $200?
"Artificially controlling price" just means that US customers pay prices for prescription drugs in line with the rest of the developed world. I don't understand how / why people seem to enjoy getting fleeced by the drug companies?
Lets just boil this down to a simple question and however you answer, we can end this discussion as we clearly just disagree.
If everyone else is paying $100 for a drug is there a reason the US should pay $200?
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:56 am to wutangfinancial
quote:
Okay, you are completely missing the boat here. What if there is a drug that the government wants to negotiate for and the company denies the price because it is too low?
That is why we look at what other countries are paying - the worldwide market and pay in line with the market price.
This post was edited on 12/17/19 at 9:57 am
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:57 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:The US has more money than other Nations. Econ 101: Price is a function of Supply and Demand. High Demand coupled with High Supply of Money = High Prices.
This is a very hard thing to come up with relative to drug prices. So if you look at the worldwide market, the US shouldn't be paying higher than all the other countries.
It really is that simple.
Poor people in poor nations where the pennies we pay for common antibiotics are big expenses to those poor.
Is this fair? Yep. As fair as Life can be, reality can be. Life is not fair.
Is it Fair to be insulin dependent in order to actually live (regardless of location)? To be reliant on what is now a "simple" medicine to live.
Cue up the TV ads with sally Struthers, Feed the Children, the old Russian Jews freezing and starving, the Mexican kids getting water from junkyard streams.
Is it fair?
Life ain't fair. Never has been, never will be.
Posted on 12/17/19 at 9:59 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
"Artificially controlling price" just means that US customers pay prices for prescription drugs in line with the rest of the developed world.
I wasn't solely talking about drug prices. You also want the government to control what doctors can be paid. Do you not see how that will limit innovation.
quote:
I'm not talking about socialism
I disagree. You are wanting the means of production to be taken over by the government. That is the literal definition of socialism.
The free market has made us the most prosperous and wealthy nation in the history of the world, why don't you want to apply those principles to the healthcare field?
Posted on 12/17/19 at 10:01 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
That is why we look at what other countries are paying - the worldwide market and pay in line with the market price
If it's a voluntary negotiation between the drug company and government, this doesn't make sense unless you're willing to walk away from said drug.
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