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re: Stunning Admission By Renowned Atheist; Decline of Christianity is Hurting Society
Posted on 11/8/19 at 9:02 am to FooManChoo
Posted on 11/8/19 at 9:02 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Whether a person's personal preference is the same tomorrow as it is today is irrelevant to the notion that their personal preference is just that, a subjective preference.
How can it be irrelevant when the change in preference itself is what denotes subjectivity?
quote:
Subjectivity isn't a spectrum just like objectivity isn't.
It absolutely is. Because subjectivity is influenced by personal aspects (opinions formed by feelings, tastes, experiences), the degree to which those aspects influence behavior can vary as the drivers change.
Take someone's view on Catholicism, for instance. There is an objective source for the framework of belief. Unless someone believes everything the Catholic Church professes, they are being subjective in their faith.
Let's say Steve doesn't believe in contraception because of his Catholic faith. Steve eventually has 5 kids and all have severe physical and mental disabilities. The stress on himself and his wife (emotional as well as financial) in trying to handle such a demanding life can well influence his thoughts on contraception (and hers as well). He moves from objective to subjective, but to him it's only because of his specific instance and overall he still believes contraception should not be used.
As Steve goes through life he experiences other issues that add to his thoughts on allowances for contraception. Each new allowance is moving his subjectivity on the subject farther along until he no longer believes it's the Church's business.
That's a spectrum for subjectivity and it varies far more wildly and quickly when trying to look at a societal issue or discussion on an individual level.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 5:24 pm to Bard
quote:Not in this context. Subjectivity is denoted by the origin of the standard: does it come from individual humans or from something transcendent outside of humanity?
How can it be irrelevant when the change in preference itself is what denotes subjectivity?
quote:Perhaps I haven't communicated myself well seeing that you and others are having such a hard time with this. I'll try again:
It absolutely is. Because subjectivity is influenced by personal aspects (opinions formed by feelings, tastes, experiences), the degree to which those aspects influence behavior can vary as the drivers change.
Take someone's view on Catholicism, for instance. There is an objective source for the framework of belief. Unless someone believes everything the Catholic Church professes, they are being subjective in their faith.
Let's say Steve doesn't believe in contraception because of his Catholic faith. Steve eventually has 5 kids and all have severe physical and mental disabilities. The stress on himself and his wife (emotional as well as financial) in trying to handle such a demanding life can well influence his thoughts on contraception (and hers as well). He moves from objective to subjective, but to him it's only because of his specific instance and overall he still believes contraception should not be used.
As Steve goes through life he experiences other issues that add to his thoughts on allowances for contraception. Each new allowance is moving his subjectivity on the subject farther along until he no longer believes it's the Church's business.
That's a spectrum for subjectivity and it varies far more wildly and quickly when trying to look at a societal issue or discussion on an individual level.
When I speak of moral objectivity, I'm not talking about how people experience morality. I'm talking about how people receive morality. Moral objectivity is referencing a moral standard that transcends the individual human mind and exists outside of humanity.
Moral subjectivity is also not simply how we experience morality but how morality comes from within ourselves. It's the origin that matters. If morality is subjective and thus originates within our own minds, then it cannot be objective and therefore there cannot be one, single standard that can be rationally used to compare to others. It's why I used the analogy of ice cream flavors. We can argue about which ones we, individually, like better than others, but we have no point of reference to judge others' favorite flavors as being objectively wrong. Morality is the same way if it's subjective as there is no transcendent point of reference to compare against.
In this sense, morality is on a spectrum. There is either objective right and wrong (moral objectivity), or an infinite number of moral standards that are neither better or worse than any other (moral subjectivity).
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