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re: Elon Musk says we're probably living in a simulation
Posted on 9/10/18 at 2:58 pm to CivilTiger83
Posted on 9/10/18 at 2:58 pm to CivilTiger83
quote:
he universe says that it is expanding from a singularity event that occurred in finite space and time.
That’s what we understand as of now. You are trying to use god to explain what happened before that. And before we understood evolution they used god to explain species. It’s a “god of the gaps” argument.
quote:
there is no physical manifestation that has an infinite property. So you are believing in something we have no evidence for... why?
So how do you know god isn’t “physical”?
You aren’t “believing in something we have no evidence for”?
Posted on 9/10/18 at 3:46 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
If you use the same reasoning, how would a god create itself?
A force capable of making time and space itself is capable of being outside time. It logically follows even if we don't understand the mechanics of such a thing. It's kind of like us asking an ant what is the square root of 49... we know enough about our universe to understand that it is incredible vast and minutely complex.
What isn't logical is that the universe is infinitely old. The universe is expanding... if it's expanding it had a start. Most scientists put that number at about 14 billion years ago based on what we can measure.
Also your argument that we just haven't discovered enough to disprove an original cause to the universe is putting a lot of faith in something you do not see or know.
The case for the origin of the universe is only more convincing today that it was before the time of Darwinism, relativity and all of our modern scientific advancements... so your argument doesn't hold water on that count.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 4:06 pm to CivilTiger83
quote:
The earlier poster who was making a silly caricature of the Christian God doesn't understand the God of the Bible. That God was never defined in the Bible as being "in the clouds".
At the end of the day you have to come to grips with our existence. We are here, and we implicitly understand that the world and our universe had a beginning. How did matter, energy and time itself come to be? What creature can make the laws of the universe itself? How limitless is the power of this being?
It is precisely as you say. This is a bracing reality demanding that we embrace that reality with our intellect and live the life we've been gifted with every fiber of our being and with all the strength we can muster.
Flights of fancy and meaningless reveries only serve to corrupt the spirit, distract the mind and dissipate our energies.
Live fully and truly. Never quit. Keep the Faith.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 4:07 pm to cajuncarguy
"If a civilization stops advancing then that may be due to some calamitous event that erases civilization," Musk said, presenting two options. "Either we're going to create simulations that are indistinguishable from reality, or civilization will cease to exist."
Hard to say he is wrong.. phrase it like this:
"we’ll end up using technology for pleasure and we don't even care about simulating ancestors, we’ll end up killing ourselves, or we’re living in a simulation"
Hard to say he is wrong.. phrase it like this:
"we’ll end up using technology for pleasure and we don't even care about simulating ancestors, we’ll end up killing ourselves, or we’re living in a simulation"
This post was edited on 9/10/18 at 4:11 pm
Posted on 9/10/18 at 4:11 pm to bmy
quote:
Hard to say he is wrong.
Not really, it very well could be that there are hard limitations on technology.
Replace the above with "time machine", or the ability to create a suit that would allow you to safely fly to, and walk on, the sun. Some things just might not be possible.
This post was edited on 9/10/18 at 4:12 pm
Posted on 9/10/18 at 4:12 pm to CivilTiger83
quote:
A force capable of making time and space itself is capable of being outside time.
But you're making the same argument and simply glossing over it.
Who's to say the Universe hasn't existed forever? You keep claiming that it's expanding and thus must have had an an origin or creator. But nothing requires that. What if time and matter had been bound together in a tiny point ad infinitum? Adding god to the equation makes the origin of the universe more complex and unlikely, not less.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 4:25 pm to Azkiger
quote:
Replace the above with "time machine", or the ability to create a suit that would allow you to safely fly to, and walk on, the sun. Some things just might not be possible.
We run simulations all the time. Moore's law is still going strong without yet progressing to a more capable material..
No reason to expect a meaningful hard processing power cap that would prevent a simulation.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 4:32 pm to CivilTiger83
quote:
A force capable of making time and space itself is capable of being outside time.
None of this is proveable. It would be better if you said it requires blind faith. I’m fine with that. It’s when you act like you can prove god’s existence or disprove his absence.
quote:
What isn't logical is that the universe is infinitely old. The universe is expanding... if it's expanding it had a start.
This also isn’t true or proveable. We simply don’t know what happened before the Big Bang. Just that all matter was arranged in a very small space. That doesn’t mean that all matter had to be created at that time.
quote:
putting a lot of faith in something you do not see or know.
I don’t have a belief other than that you have yet to prove anything. You are the one putting faith in your beliefs
I appreciate the civil (no pun intended) discussion, but it seems you have based most of your beliefs on a few false premises....
1. The universe is expanding THEREFORE everything must have been created at the Big Bang
2. “A force capable of making time and space itself is capable of being outside time. It logically follows even if we don't understand the mechanics of such a thing.“
Just to name a few
This post was edited on 9/10/18 at 4:33 pm
Posted on 9/10/18 at 4:35 pm to bmy
quote:
a simulation
A simulation goes beyond just sight and sound, youd have to get touch and taste in as well. Is there even a working prototype of a mouth insert that both mimics the taste and texture of food, that's swallowable to boot?
I think technology can get us close for entertainment values, but something that is indistinguishable from our own reality? Not even close. It's possible, but it's not on the horizon.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 4:40 pm to Azkiger
quote:
Is there even a working prototype of a mouth insert that both mimics the taste and texture of food, that's swallowable to boot?
I don’t think this is necessarily what he is saying. I think when they describe simulation it would be more like the matrix. Putting someone in a dream state and making their brain think it’s in a different reality by stimulating different areas of the brain.
If this were possible and we learned how to alter the brain’s sense of time. We could produce a dream state that would amount to a lifetime of our time but a few seconds for the original being. Somewhat like the movie Inception.
Actually now that I think about it, is this exactly what the plot of Inception was about? Dreams are basically “simulations”. And you can have dreams within dreams. Where each level time is continually diluted
shite now I think I need some of what Musk was smoking
Posted on 9/10/18 at 5:16 pm to Azkiger
quote:
A simulation goes beyond just sight and sound, youd have to get touch and taste in as well. Is there even a working prototype of a mouth insert that both mimics the taste and texture of food, that's swallowable to boot?
I think technology can get us close for entertainment values, but something that is indistinguishable from our own reality? Not even close. It's possible, but it's not on the horizon.
It doesn't really have to do everything though. Certain senses and/or abilities wouldn't necessarily be important to simulated beings developing a highly advanced simulation.
Plue, it could be a simulation of a single individual.. the scale shouldn't matter.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 7:37 pm to bmy
So disappointed. 6 pages and no one has referenced South Park. What is this placing becoming?
This post was edited on 9/10/18 at 7:49 pm
Posted on 9/10/18 at 8:01 pm to WaWaWeeWa
As it turns out, this world-beyond-this-world idea also isn’t new. For thousands of years, theologians, religious priests, and philosophers have asserted that our immediate, visible, and experienced reality is not “all there is.” Whether one turns to the ancient Egyptians, Greek philosophers, Indian Brahmins, or medieval scholastics, the universe is always depicted as multi-dimensional in one way or another.
Why, then, are we here? Who is the “architect” or “programmer,” and does this entity or person or whatever communicate with those inside the simulation? Has the Maker been revealed so that we might gain knowledge? And is there the possibility of a “new simulation” after this one in which we might take part? As you can already tell, these questions are the bread and butter of classic divinity. If only those outside the believing community might see this.
“anyone who has seen me has seen the Father,” John 14:9
Posted on 9/10/18 at 8:14 pm to QboveTopSecret
I’d imagine some people finding out we’re in a simulation and maybe deciding to shoot up a school or something crazy because it doesn’t really matter anyway.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 8:23 pm to cajuncarguy
I’ve been listening over a few runs.
Been fascinating. Elon is full of shite on over 50% of his discussion but it is some interesting stuff to think about.
You could tell Joe was destroyed when he explained the science behind why we can’t have flying cars and magnetic superhighways.
While I may not agree with him on much I appreciate him going on there and putting it all out there. It was a great listen. Joe’s Podcast with ND Tyson was great too.
Been fascinating. Elon is full of shite on over 50% of his discussion but it is some interesting stuff to think about.
You could tell Joe was destroyed when he explained the science behind why we can’t have flying cars and magnetic superhighways.
While I may not agree with him on much I appreciate him going on there and putting it all out there. It was a great listen. Joe’s Podcast with ND Tyson was great too.
Posted on 9/10/18 at 8:50 pm to baybeefeetz
Are you here by choice or by force.
Are you willing to take the chance on being judged for your actions.
This post was edited on 9/10/18 at 8:58 pm
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