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re: Gun deaths in 2016
Posted on 10/11/17 at 12:31 am to Ebbandflow
Posted on 10/11/17 at 12:31 am to Ebbandflow
quote:
nd also most people who commit violent crimes have prior felonies which makes it illegal for them to vote.
And if you had been paying attention, you would realize that these people would be excluded from the subsets I've been discussing.
quote:
You're not accounting for efficacy amongst people who commit crimes
so now you're making my argument for me (while hilariously misusing the word "efficacy") The fact that certain demographics are predisposed to committing gun crime is precisely what I am arguing, and this is supported by all available DATA on the subject. Until you can produce some contradictory DATA, then I would suggest you swallow that pride and start accepting what the numbers say, instead of what you wish they would say.
*cue the response with no data and lots of 'feels'*
This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 12:35 am
1
Posted on 10/11/17 at 12:40 am to CptRusty
quote:
Oh, here's a reason, everywhere one voting demographic is the vast vast majority of the population, there is a giant spike of gun crime. Hmm, real fricking head scratcher isn't it?
Also, using your logic: suicides account for more gun deaths than murders do. The data shows that suicides overwhelmingly happen in traditionally Republican dominated areas.
cbs
Just so you know almost 2/3 of gun deaths in the United States are caused by Suicide
Posted on 10/11/17 at 12:50 am to CptRusty
quote:
The fact that certain demographics are predisposed to committing gun crime is precisely what I am arguing
Predisposed? Are we talking socioeconomic groups or are you going full racist here?
quote:
now you're making my argument for me (while hilariously misusing the word "efficacy")
You know that i meant political efficacy. Excuse my shorthand.
I absolutely do not make your point for you. What I'm saying is you're not accounting for all the people who don't participate in the voting process due to mistrust, apathetic thug lifestyle, or priors. You cannot claim people who do not participate as Democrats.
From CNN:
"This gap is reflective of a polarized electorate. Just 22 percent of self-identified Democrats chose protecting gun ownership rights over limiting gun access, compared with the 76 percent of Republicans who did."
So 22% of Democrats want guns. It must be that 22% that shooting everybody huh?
This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 1:01 am
Posted on 10/11/17 at 7:13 am to Ebbandflow
quote:
Are we talking socioeconomic groups or are you going full racist here?
I'm talking voting patterns. You keep attempting to steer the conversation into a position where I'm somehow racist. This isn't surprising because at this point ad hominem is about all you have left.
quote:
You know that i meant political efficacy.
ef·fi·ca·cy
noun
the ability to produce a desired or intended result.
I'm not sure what political efficacy would be, so no, I have no idea what you're talking about here. Regardless, you've been repeating the same tired argument with nothing to support it for three days now, so I can still guess what you are getting at.
quote:
You cannot claim people who do not participate as Democrats.
I don't have to. We are discussing a subset of the voting population. You seem to keep thinking the fact that not all criminals vote is some kind of "gotcha". What I'm trying to explain to you is that it doesn't matter, SOME fraction of voters do participate in crimes. The fact that there are a higher frequency of crime in Democrat voting areas allows for one to draw reasonable inferences with an acceptable degree of certainty.
You can call that an "assumption" if you want, but there are many conclusions you probably accept as fact even though they are arrived at the same way, for example:
Cigarettes are known to cause lung cancer. No one has ever seen a molecule of cigarette smoke corrupt the DNA of lung tissue, but based on large sample sizes and the patterns which emerge from those groups, it is a REASONABLE INFERENCE. That doesn't mean everyone who smokes will get cancer, but the numbers are VERY clear that smokers have a much higher likelihood of getting certain types.
Same with Democrat voters and the statistics re: gun crime. Unfortunately, there is an undeniably strong correlation between the population of any given area voting democrat, and a corresponding increase in gun crime in that area.
You seem hell bent on not accepting this, and that is your prerogative.
This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 7:14 am
Posted on 10/11/17 at 10:30 am to CptRusty
quote:
Same with Democrat voters and the statistics re: gun crime. Unfortunately, there is an undeniably strong correlation between the population of any given area voting democrat, and a corresponding increase in gun crime in that area.
Even if that was true, what good is your information? What is your final point? Simply showing that there is more gun crime in the larger Democrat areas, also known as cities, is useless info.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 10:33 am to Ebbandflow
quote:
What is your final point? Simply showing that there is more gun crime in the larger Democrat areas, also known as cities, is useless info.
Great information to have in travel guides.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 10:36 am to roadGator
quote:
Great information to have in travel guides.
Yeah I can see it now: "Major metro areas have more gun crime."
Shocking
Posted on 10/11/17 at 10:37 am to Phat Phil
quote:
Gun deaths
Misleading stat is misleading.
Japan has 4 "gun deaths" - but almost 22k suicides.
US has 33,588 "gun deaths" but over half are suicides.
The implication that if there were no guns that those 18k to 20k suicides wouldn't happen is patently false, as Asian countries with severe restrictions (or outright bans), have comparable or higher suicide rates.
Now - is gun violence a problem in the U.S.? Certainly. But, it is largely urban, gang/drug related, and the U.S. is still safer, with relatively liberal firearm laws, then violent regions (with otherwise restrictive firearm laws and no Second Amendment) like Latin America and Sub-Saharan Africa.
This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 10:38 am
Posted on 10/11/17 at 10:51 am to Ebbandflow
I think you'd need to point out the specific areas in those Metros that experience all the violence and gun crimes for it to be realistic.
I wouldn't put a warning in a travel guide about gun crimes in Manhattan. That would be silly.
I wouldn't put a warning in a travel guide about gun crimes in Manhattan. That would be silly.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 10:54 am to Ebbandflow
quote:
Just so you know almost 2/3 of gun deaths in the United States are caused by Suicide
Which is why "gun deaths" is basically an irrelevant statistic in the overall discussion.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 10:56 am to Dale51
quote:
2/3 ? of gun deaths are suicide.
Not in Lousiana where more than half of gun deaths are homicides. Gun homicide rate in Lousiana is 10 per 100,000.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 10:57 am to Phat Phil
Now do per capita.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 11:02 am to Ebbandflow
It is pertinent to the "gun control" conversation, specifically in that it shows it is PEOPLE we need to be focused on, not simply the presence of firearms.
If the goal is to reduce gun violence (or how about just crime in general) then we have to have an honest conversation about who is committing the crime and why.
Outright denial of who it is committing crime only serves to exacerbate the issue.
If the goal is to reduce gun violence (or how about just crime in general) then we have to have an honest conversation about who is committing the crime and why.
Outright denial of who it is committing crime only serves to exacerbate the issue.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 11:04 am to Ace Midnight
quote:Seems odd to compare us with Asian countries and not European countries.
The implication that if there were no guns that those 18k to 20k suicides wouldn't happen is patently false, as Asian countries with severe restrictions (or outright bans), have comparable or higher suicide rates.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 11:06 am to Iosh
quote:
Seems odd to compare us with Asian countries and not European countries.
Meh - our suicide rates are more comparable to Asia than Europe (well, Western Europe, anyway). Have to pick your poison (pardon the pun).
This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 11:08 am
Posted on 10/11/17 at 11:09 am to CptRusty
We can argue causation at another time but clearly there is a statistical deviation when it comes to violence and race in the U.S.
The black U.S. intentional homicide rate would fall at #33 of 219 countries measured or the top 15th percentile globally.
The white U.S. intentional homicide rate is #169 of 219 countries measured globally or 77th percentile.
The black U.S. intentional homicide rate would fall at #33 of 219 countries measured or the top 15th percentile globally.
The white U.S. intentional homicide rate is #169 of 219 countries measured globally or 77th percentile.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 11:12 am to Phat Phil
good lord, you've created a ruckus.
But, I'm still trying to find where you said that you wanted to ban guns?
I'm more concerned by the racist and dividing responses.
They can all be summed up with, "It's someone else's fault!"
But, I'm still trying to find where you said that you wanted to ban guns?
I'm more concerned by the racist and dividing responses.
They can all be summed up with, "It's someone else's fault!"
Posted on 10/11/17 at 11:16 am to mwade91383
quote:
Too bad those rates don’t mean the same thing. How they’re reported, what counts and what doesn’t, and who keeps track are different country to country. It’s not comparing apples to apples, a detail they leave out, I wonder why????
If you’re dumb enough to think Sweden has 3x more criminal activity (even per capita) than the US you’re nowhere near as smart as you think you are.
I'm exactly as intelligent as I think I am.
That's why you fricking melted about my post.
If you want to debate what I posted, let's do it. I'm always happy to pick any of you apart on this topic.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 11:17 am to mwade91383
quote:
Fine. Take out 20k, still pretty lobsided. Happy?
0.0026%
Do you think that is a significant rate?
Posted on 10/11/17 at 11:20 am to Ebbandflow
quote:
General lack of give a shite and prior felonies.
Oh.
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