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re: Is Everything "In A Bubble" Right Now?

Posted on 9/21/17 at 8:34 pm to
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 8:34 pm to
quote:

they flood money into sectors, create inflation, and then cut ties


I think you've been buying too much into populist storytellers like Michael Lewis, and getting the causation completely wrong here.

There's little doubt in my mind that most asset prices are wildly overvalued at the moment (just read by Hussman-related posts on here), but it has absolutely nothing to do with the i-bankers and PE/VC crowd inflating prices or pumping and dumping. They're just doing their job as salesmen, and the real driver of inflation is near-ZIRP. The PE/VC firms thus gets tons of money raised easily, but then can't find enough deal flow to sustain their enterprise and justify them holding all that investor cash--so they bid up multiples. But they're just playing the central bankers' game of musical chairs--they dance or they have to quit and find employment in another type of career.

It's the classic financial advisors who are selling people on bullshite (i.e., that stocks are currently a good investment because of their dividend yield relative to bond yields) once again. You can hardly blame them either though. They're just doing their jobs.

Calling this an "everything bubble" is a pretty decent way to think about things, but technically (as Shiller himself points out), we're not really experiencing bubble-type phenomena, ICOs excepted. Rather, we're just experiencing overinflated asset prices everywhere because nobody knows what else is better to do, even though a whole lot of people are still worried.

Also, I've been a sharp critic of near-ZIRP since about 2011 (although I also supported it from about 2008-2010 as being temporarily necessary), but not all of this can be laid at the feet of the Fed either. Firstly, because the Fed isn't the root cause of America's macroeconomic stagnation since the mid-1960s (and more sharply since 2000). Secondly, because a lot of the asset inflation is coming from overseas. There are people out there who make a pretty good case that recent U.S. stock market appreciation is correlated to the combined asset balances of the FRB, ECB, BOJ, & PBOC (plus the BOE, SNB, etc.). So even as the Fed begins to wind down, that doesn't mean that other major central banks won't keep propping things up. The Swiss National Bank alone has about $80 billion invested in the U.S. stock market, or about $10,000 for every man, woman, and child in Switzerland. Crazy times.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423392 posts
Posted on 9/22/17 at 8:57 am to
quote:

But they're just playing the central bankers' game of musical chairs--they dance or they have to quit and find employment in another type of career.

i am not saying that the story begins and ends with the forces driving these "investments", but like you said, they have to justify their existence (and with more data coming out about how effective they actually are, this requires lots of risky/aggro moves) so they flood markets to artificially increase the values of these markets

quote:

It's the classic financial advisors who are selling people on bullshite (i.e., that stocks are currently a good investment because of their dividend yield relative to bond yields) once again. You can hardly blame them either though. They're just doing their jobs.

i somewhat blame them b/c they aren't really good at their jobs but are having their value masked by the insanity of the current market. but, this thread is about "everything being a bubble" and these people clearly are promoting a bubble niche/economy. i can blame them for that

quote:

we're just experiencing overinflated asset prices everywhere because nobody knows what else is better to do,

i agree, but i think there are mini-bubbles within the larger economy. i still think tech is a legit bubble

just take Amazon. they are solely focused on pumping up their stock over profits. that model is being copied everywhere in tech. at some point, that bubble will pop and once the confidence is lost, the whole industry will implode. the tech over-valuation is clearly a bubble b/c it's insanely inflated based on confidence that a very specific inflation will continue and little else. yes tech does have some tangible value, but so did the tulips who were owned after the crash or real estate in 2009

quote:

There are people out there who make a pretty good case that recent U.S. stock market appreciation is correlated to the combined asset balances of the FRB, ECB, BOJ, & PBOC (plus the BOE, SNB, etc.). So even as the Fed begins to wind down, that doesn't mean that other major central banks won't keep propping things up. The Swiss National Bank alone has about $80 billion invested in the U.S. stock market, or about $10,000 for every man, woman, and child in Switzerland. Crazy times.

i agree and i use this more of an example to counter people who claim the US is about to fall. there is no replacement for the US, b/c everyone who may be able to overtake us is in worse positions and investing here

certainly this has extreme effects in isolated examples (like real estate in certain areas) but a much larger macro effect overall
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