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Message
re: Anybody remember when RUssia hacked the election?
Posted on 8/3/17 at 11:34 pm to Jyrdis
Posted on 8/3/17 at 11:34 pm to Jyrdis
quote:I'm sure they do.
Wasn't it also determined that our IC had the ability to disguise their IP
quote:Now this seems unreasonable. Why would they do that for the Clinton campaign when everybody is so sure the IC didn't want Trump to win and is now trying to undermine him?
to make it appear that Russians were doing the hacking?
This post was edited on 8/3/17 at 11:35 pm
Posted on 8/3/17 at 11:36 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
to make it appear that Russians were doing the hacking?
Now this seems unreasonable
your argument for why it's reasonable is they hack.
the US government hacks.
In fact, we know for fact the DHS hacked the GA election boards computers.
we know that. IT"S FACTUAL.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 11:38 pm to CptBengal
quote:Yes. And of all nations who hack, they probably despised Hillary the most, and have a history of attempts and successes hacking the US.
your argument for why it's reasonable is they hack
quote:OK? I never said they didn't hack. I just don't think the IC is the prime suspect in attacking the Hillary and the left. I mean unless you're now saying that the IC wanted Trump to win instead?
the US government hacks.
In fact, we know for fact the DHS hacked the GA election boards computers. we know that.
IT"S FACTUAL.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 11:41 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
And of all nations who hack, they probably despised Hillary the most, and have a history of attempts and successes hacking the US.
Why did they despise Hillary? She gave them what they wanted on the missile defense shield in Poland?
quote:
OK? I never said they didn't hack. I just don't think the IC is the prime suspect in attacking the Hillary and the left.
So now you're changing from your initial definition of reasonable (after facts show it to be stupid) to whatever deranged belief you have. Sweet. Glad we cleared that up.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 11:46 pm to CptBengal
quote:I don't know. She's unlikable, and you all told me she wanted to start WWIII with Russia.
Why did they despise Hillary? She gave them what they wanted on the missile defense shield in Poland?
quote:I didn't say that at all. I'm saying that there are a few nations known for their ability to hack. The US doesn't seem likely, since that means they were targeting the side in opposition to the person who they didn't want to win.
So now you're changing from your initial definition of reasonable (after facts show it to be stupid) to whatever deranged belief you have. Sweet. Glad we cleared that up.
And considering Russia is one of the most obvious suspects of any hacking of this type, and you all said they had good reason to want Hillary and her WWIII vendetta to lose, then I think Russia is one of the most reasonable suspects.
Then again, that it's also reasonable to conclude Russia didn't hack, but that doesn't negate the reasonableness of the alternative.
Neither you nor I can say either way. So what is so wrong with saying Russia is a reasonable suspect, given their history and their capability?
Posted on 8/3/17 at 11:51 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Why did they despise Hillary?
I don't know.
You gave that as a reason.
so you are literally now making up phantom motives to support a contention that has no proof.
...then you call it "reasonable"
quote:
And considering Russia is one of the most obvious suspects of any hacking of this type, a
why? because you say so?
China, NK, fricking random hackers online, all of them are behind Russia? WHy?
quote:
Neither you nor I can say either way. So what is so wrong with saying Russia is a reasonable suspect,
again you clown...if you can make the claim that nobody knows, then all actors with that ability are "reasonable"...here'a nice map of LIVE of hacking for you to ponder, clown:
LINK
fricking imbecile.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 11:52 pm to CptBengal
quote:
libertarians
I'm a Rand Paul conservatarian voter. Conservatives shouldn't alienate that part of the base. I voted for Trump but agree with a lot of libertarian principles
Posted on 8/3/17 at 11:53 pm to jdeval1
quote:
I'm a Rand Paul conservatarian voter. Conservatives shouldn't alienate that part of the base. I voted for Trump but agree with a lot of libertarian principles
I put it in quotes for a reason.
the ones here arent actually libertarian.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 11:53 pm to CptBengal
Good luck arguing with him, he'll drive you insane with every post having a qualifier, it seems, reasonable, one could infer, etc, etc, etc, etc.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 11:55 pm to CptBengal
quote:
I put it in quotes for a reason.
the ones here arent actually libertarian
Gotcha. I don't visit the Poli Board often and just read this thread. I'm about 95% libertarian except for the open borders crap
Posted on 8/4/17 at 12:03 am to CptBengal
quote:All I said was that I think it's reasonable. We know Russia attempts (and succeeds) in hacking us. We know that Russia likes to meddle, for whatever reason.
You gave that as a reason.
so you are literally now making up phantom motives to support a contention that has no proof.
...then you call it "reasonable"
You started this thread about Russia hacking. I AGREED that it's unreasonable to think they hacked the election itself. But you referred to posts that referred to the campaign hacks (or phishing if you want to be technical), and I said it was reasonable to suspect them.
I am not going around saying Russia is guilty, I'm just responding to a thread about Russia hacking.
quote:You didn't start a thread about China or North Korean hacking. They are also reasonable suspects, but since the candidate and party who took harder campaign stances against them was Trump's, I think their involvement is a bit less likely, especially considering the Wikileaks connection.
why? because you say so?
China, NK, fricking random hackers online, all of them are behind Russia? WHy?
quote:Yes. The few capable and willing are more reasonable than the vast majority who lack either or both.
again you clown...if you can make the claim that nobody knows, then all actors with that ability are "reasonable"...here'a nice map of LIVE of hacking for you to ponder, clown:
So that narrows it down to small percentage of the global population. And it just so happens that Russia, with their technological expertise, history, and IC focus on cyber warfare, is one of the more reasonable.
quote:Since I'm an imbecile for saying it's reasonable for Russia to be a suspect, that must mean it's unreasonable is the correct conclusion?
fricking imbecile.
And if it's unreasonable, then present some evidence for a change rather than making strawmen, playing word games, and resorting to your unnecessary insults. You started the thread, apparently to mock those that argued Russia was behind it. I agreed with you about the election itself, but since you are going to make such a big deal for me saying that they could be behind the campaigns, then why don't you actually refute it with evidence why it's unreasonable.
This post was edited on 8/4/17 at 12:06 am
Posted on 8/4/17 at 12:11 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
All I said was that I think it's reasonable.
base don no evidence.
quote:
We know Russia attempts (and succeeds) in hacking us
so does everyone else.
quite the argument.
quote:
Since I'm an imbecile for saying it's reasonable for Russia to be a suspect,
based on your argument of the following point:
1) you are a reasonable suspect if you hack
then everyone is a reasonable suspect.
Let's see if I can put this into a framework you might remember, and then you can play your contrarian schtick somewhere else...
under your argument, any actor in the Universal Set is "reasonable"
that's not an argument.
Posted on 8/4/17 at 12:39 am to CptBengal
quote:You don't have to believe the DNI, and I'm not going to take it as absolute fact, but I don't think we can dismiss it as fake out of hand:
base don no evidence.
Background to “Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections”: The Analytic Process and Cyber Incident Attribution
In addition, there is just basic data that indicates that they are one of the primary hacking sources worldwide:
Top 5 Countries Where Cyber Attacks Originate
quote:And just so it can't be argued that this is a new narrative post-election, this is from 2013:
A total of 5.14% of cyber attacks are initiated by the Russians.
Which Four Countries Most Actively Hack the U.S.?
quote:So even if you disregard the DNI, that wikileaks typically deals with US and European issues, and just look at the global hacking data, then Russia is already one of top candidates.
There has been a review in the US intelligence community on who are the most active opponents. China is far in the lead, Russia is second, two others come up.
So if you want to argue China is reasonable. I won't disagree, but Russia is also reasonable. I just think that since Russia is more likely than to deal with wikileaks than China AND more importantly, Trump had strong campaign rhetoric AGAINST CHINA, makes Russia's probability higher than there base rate.
Not to mention China hacking has decreased:
The Decline in Chinese Cyberattacks: The Story Behind the Numbers
quote:That would be a necessary condition.
based on your argument of the following point: 1) you are a reasonable suspect if you hack
quote:I don't think the US IC is a reasonable suspect to attack Hillary with Trump as her main opposition and Obama in power.
then everyone is a reasonable suspect.
quote:I say it's reasonable because:
Let's see if I can put this into a framework you might remember, and then you can play your contrarian schtick somewhere else... under your argument, any actor in the Universal Set is "reasonable" that's not an argument.
1. Russia is one of the top hacking countries in the world.
2. 5% of all hacks originate from Russia.
3. Our own IC community is highly unlikely to have targeted Hillary.
4. The other main foreign hacking nation, China, has had a decrease in hacking, and Trump was the candidate who took a strong position against them.
5. Wikileaks typically deals with US and Europe, making China an unusual source.
6. Our IC believes Russia was trying to interfere, even if that report is over-relied upon.
So yes, given all that Russia seems like a reasonable source. I am not arguing that they are the source. But even the 5% statistic is reasonable, and I think the circumstances suggests that its higher than that. So even if it's "only" 25%, that's a pretty reasonable suspect.
This post was edited on 8/4/17 at 12:53 am
Posted on 8/4/17 at 8:25 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
I say it's reasonable because:
1. Russia is one of the top hacking countries in the world.
2. 5% of all hacks originate from Russia.
5%?
lol
under this clown analysis CHina is more likely
Posted on 8/4/17 at 8:35 am to CptBengal
quote:Well then what is the figure? Your lol indicates that this number is incorrect and you have the correct available to discredit it.
5%
lol
quote:I literally said this in the it you're quoting:
under this clown analysis CHina is more likely
quote:You have this weird tendency to essentially restate a person's argument, maybe tweaking it a bit, then acting like you've nailed a gotcha.
So if you want to argue China is reasonable. I won't disagree, but Russia is also reasonable.
And not to leave out the usual insults sprinkled in.
This post was edited on 8/4/17 at 8:38 am
Posted on 8/4/17 at 8:51 am to CptBengal
Remember after one of the last debates the Dems losing their minds over Trump declining to expressly state that he would accept the results of the election? Boy, those statements sure are funny to look back on now.
Posted on 8/4/17 at 9:12 am to CptBengal
quote:
but they didnt hack him, they phished him.
A successful phish is considered hacking.
...and there are plenty of actual libertarians here on this board.
Posted on 8/4/17 at 9:18 am to Centinel
quote:
A successful phish is considered hacking.
No.
Posted on 8/4/17 at 9:19 am to Turbeauxdog
quote:
No
And your qualification to say this is?
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