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re: PB: Chime in if you support GOP's Cuckcare
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:22 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:22 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
this moves the crosshairs from the DEMs to the GOP.
CHICKEN DINNER
quote:
this is not a step to repeal the ACA. it's just going to become it's own behemoth
How is it that nobody understands this? The next dem congress will simply use this as a framework to reinstate Obamacare. It's a big government program put forth by the supposed "other team," and will only grow with time.
This post was edited on 6/22/17 at 8:26 pm
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:25 pm to SlowFlowPro
Agreed. They should let Obamacare collapse.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:26 pm to goldennugget
quote:The "end" in this case being... the GOP taking ownership of Obamacare?
I think it sucks, but at the same time I realize the bill is the only means to the end.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:27 pm to Iosh
they're even going to pass this bill with the same "we are going to have to tweak it" excuse the DEMs used for like 5 years
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:27 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
this is going to sink the GOP. this bill has disaster (from all angles) written on it. AT BEST, it becomes ACA vol. 2 and then grows into its own insane bureaucracy. this is not a step towards reducing government in health care or a step to repealing the ACA. AT WORST, this is going to sink the GOP in 2018 moving onward and they lose their control of Congress
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:31 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i honestly don't see how anybody likes this
like i said in the other thread, this moves the crosshairs from the DEMs to the GOP. they're taking all the political liability from the disaster that is the ACA away from the DEMs. now any and everything wrong with the ACHA moving forward till sink the GOP
They did this the moment they took up healthcare in congress. Frankly they took it up the moment Trump and the GOP won in November.
But if they do pass this, it will be hell for them. In many ways they made parts of the House bill worse. Which I really didn't think was possible.
quote:
this is not a step to repeal the ACA. it's just going to become it's own behemoth
how the GOP is going about passing the bill is terrible
I will say this, get ready for some insanely high premium jumps. If what I read is not being misinterpreted, they are planning to repeal the mandate everywhere but not the pre-existing condition clauses and other protections. That will be left up to the states.
What that is likely to do is one of two things. The first possibility is it will drive up premiums enormously. Because you won't have healthy people forced into the pools but insurers will not know how risky their pools are because they are still barred from prejudicing on pre-existing conditions. So many insurers will abandon individual markets - on exchange or off - and in other cases jack up rates to insulate themselves where they don't. Meaning everyone on the individual market will be squeezed enormously and price a ton people out of the market or just leave them without options. The other possibility is it will force even more states to abandon certain coverage provisions in order to stabilize what is absolutely going to be a very chaotic aftermath of the passage where insurers are threatening to abandon individual markets entirely.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:32 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Agreed. They should let Obamacare collapse.
This is probably the best political strategy, however I think Trump feels like he needs to mitigate ACA enough to help launch tax reform. I'm not sure how they're tied in.
One thing is for damn sure. The full repeal and replace is a pipe dream as they're just not enough votes to do anything more than mitigate Obamacare.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:33 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
They did this the moment they took up healthcare in congress. F
nope
as long as ACA is the law, the DEMS have to 100% own that shite
0% GOP support does that
quote:
The first possibility is it will drive up premiums enormously.
if my rates go up i'm declaring (ideological) war on the GOP
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:33 pm to Sentrius
quote:
Pass this bill with some amendments for Cruz and Lee and then start there, win some more seats in the midterms and then keep chipping away at it to keep perfecting it. It's what democrats would've done and they've made an art out of that.
ObamaCare will be repealed by a thousand cuts, not a single stab in the gut.
I concur.
I haven't looked into the details of the McConnell bill yet, but I've posted before about the reasons why I supported passing Ryan's AHCA as part of the larger 3-phase strategy.
I'll also add a few new points here:
#1. You can only do so much with a reconciliation process that doesn't allow significant budget changes.
#2. It would be a political disaster for the Republicans not to repeal the individual mandate and other parts of ObamaCare.
#3. I think people are exaggerating the political effects of the GOP owning a bad health care system after passing the bill. (They will own it no matter what from being the majority party.) The same people on the right will blame the left, and the same people on the left will blame the right. Nobody is expecting a miracle overhaul of the gigantic health care sector overnight.
This post was edited on 6/22/17 at 8:35 pm
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:35 pm to Sentrius
quote:
It's what democrats would've done and they've made an art out of that
But its not what they did...odd comment
quote:
ObamaCare will be repealed by a thousand cuts, not a single stab in the gut.
I think you are fooling yourself if you think Obamacare is going to be repealed. It may change names, but its core provisions are already institutionalized (unfortunately)
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:37 pm to bamarep
Do I like it? No.
Would it be my bill? No.
But, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the less shitty.
90% of Ocare is still a change and sets the table for more change in the future.
Would it be my bill? No.
But, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the less shitty.
90% of Ocare is still a change and sets the table for more change in the future.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:38 pm to goldennugget
that ain't gonna happen
and when it doesn't, y'all will claim it is some nefarious clandestine force
what's going to happen is this law is going to be unpopular as frick, they're going to address it by adding their own regs that make government bigger, and it's going to be a bigger behemoth than the ACA
and when it doesn't, y'all will claim it is some nefarious clandestine force
what's going to happen is this law is going to be unpopular as frick, they're going to address it by adding their own regs that make government bigger, and it's going to be a bigger behemoth than the ACA
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:40 pm to goldennugget
quote:
Since you say repeal is so easy where would the 60 votes come from?
They could of striped all subsides from this bill, set the individual mandate to 0, stripped all funds for medicaid expansion and all cost sharing programs. Could of de-funded the ACA website.
They could of basically rolled back and collapsed the marketplaces pretty easily if they both wanted to and had the votes to do that. They don't and never will have the votes for that. Because it was always just a talking point amongst a grab bag of talking points that they littered the right with so you all could each have your own "pick-your-own-adventure" belief of what the GOP was really trying to do. Because the reality is that such a bill would be cataclysmic to the healthcare market.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:41 pm to DaGarun
quote:
But its not what they did...odd comment
I think he means in the larger sense that the Democrats passed something with full knowledge that nobody in their base would be satisfied with it as is. It was meant to be a transition to necessary changes that would come later.
But yeah, the ACA was certainly more of a big, instantaneous impact type of bill. The ratchet effect of Progressive socialism makes it always more difficult to travel backwards than forwards.
quote:
I think you are fooling yourself if you think Obamacare is going to be repealed.
I think allowing states to do almost complete opt-outs of ObamaCare provisions is a pretty big fricking deal.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:45 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
nope
as long as ACA is the law, the DEMS have to 100% own that shite
0% GOP support does that
Sorry, but no.
You don't get to win an election after promising to improve something for 6 years and then fail to do so and think the country will blame the party not in power. There might be a scenario where they ignore it and never took it up and they could avoid it becoming a major election issue over some other things, but no way they would be able to shift blame. They might be able to overcome that because, well, Democrats are incompetent and the GOP has done a masterful job with gerrymandering.
But the Democrats already proved that one in 2010. When they tried to claim it was Republicans that prevented them from making a better bill. The one they wanted. That they just needed more seats to make it better.
quote:
if my rates go up i'm declaring (ideological) war on the GOP
Well unless you are young, wealthy, and don't mind narrower networks, lower coverages and higher deductibles, you will probably be ok.
This post was edited on 6/22/17 at 8:47 pm
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:46 pm to bamarep
Until they include being able to buy insurance across state lines, it will be crap to me.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:47 pm to Doc Fenton
It looks like a truck wreck to me, but it also appears to be just the next phase of Nationalized Healthcare system.
Soon
Soon
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:48 pm to Topisawtiger
That's Phase 3 stuff. I don't think they can put that in through the Senate reconciliation procedure.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 8:48 pm to Topisawtiger
quote:
Until they include being able to buy insurance across state lines, it will be crap to me.
Not sure what people think this is going to do?
Georgia, Kentucky, and Maine have passed laws allowing outside insurers to sell in their states under whatever regulations they operate under in their home state, not a single insurer has taken them up in any state.
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