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Posted on 4/22/17 at 8:26 am to Lester Earl
I still can't fathom how Garret is ranked so high. He's a bust for sure. I never understood the love for him in college and I certainly don't see it in the NFL.
Posted on 4/22/17 at 8:56 am to bonethug0108
quote:
Then to verify I checked the database of players drafted from those teams.
Guess what? None of those teams tackles I mentioned for Garrett made it to the nfl. None of them are on the way to the nfl. They just aren't good players.
why dont you list their names and the class they are in then?
you just assume that half the list of guys barnett played against will make the NFL. lol frick dude could you be any more biased?
and i like how you tell me to "research"...you cant even read a simple chart and you are shifting the conversation from "teams" now to each invididual left tackle. haha
This post was edited on 4/22/17 at 8:58 am
Posted on 4/22/17 at 10:32 am to Carville
Barnett played Ole Miss once with 2 sacks, and Alabama twice with 1 sack each game.
Garrett against
Auburn- 3 games (0, 0, and 2)
LSU- 3 games (0, 1, and 0)
Ole Miss- 3 games (1, 0, and 0)
Miss St- 2 games (1 and 1)
Arkansas- 2 games (0 and 1)
Alabama- 3 games (0, 1, and 0)
16 games with 8 sacks (0.5 sack per game). His sack production dropped in half vs. these teams.
His other 5 sacks (going back to my other post with the nobodies and taking out those 18) were against South Carolina (1 and 1 and apparently a team not as good as), Louisville (1; did not check their line), UCLA (1; did not check their line), and Tennessee (1; did not check their line).
So Garrett had 31 sacks, 18 against non nfl competition, 10 against nfl competition, and 3 against an unsure competition level.
Barnett had 3 sacks, 2 against non nfl competition, 27 against nfl competition (and Les that's all guys in the nfl or will be this year; check the list with your bullshite hyperbole about being half), and 3 against unsure competition (currently projected to be drafted but still another year out on 2 guys and 2 years out on the other).
Barnett did it WAY more often against guys actually in the league.
And I actually didn't even verify the lines of LSU, AU, and Ark but I don't doubt they're good.
Garrett against
Auburn- 3 games (0, 0, and 2)
LSU- 3 games (0, 1, and 0)
Ole Miss- 3 games (1, 0, and 0)
Miss St- 2 games (1 and 1)
Arkansas- 2 games (0 and 1)
Alabama- 3 games (0, 1, and 0)
16 games with 8 sacks (0.5 sack per game). His sack production dropped in half vs. these teams.
His other 5 sacks (going back to my other post with the nobodies and taking out those 18) were against South Carolina (1 and 1 and apparently a team not as good as), Louisville (1; did not check their line), UCLA (1; did not check their line), and Tennessee (1; did not check their line).
So Garrett had 31 sacks, 18 against non nfl competition, 10 against nfl competition, and 3 against an unsure competition level.
Barnett had 3 sacks, 2 against non nfl competition, 27 against nfl competition (and Les that's all guys in the nfl or will be this year; check the list with your bullshite hyperbole about being half), and 3 against unsure competition (currently projected to be drafted but still another year out on 2 guys and 2 years out on the other).
Barnett did it WAY more often against guys actually in the league.
And I actually didn't even verify the lines of LSU, AU, and Ark but I don't doubt they're good.
Posted on 4/22/17 at 10:36 am to Lester Earl
Statistical comparison is a much less important than watching game tape. The unknown and imprecise nature of scouting is what makes the draft so interesting. The competition question is always asked. Remember Clowney versus Khalil Mack from the University of Buffalo? Agree to disagree and check back in a couple of years.
I don't have much interest in Garrett as a no way possible player. How about a better question...
Barnett versus Jonathan Allen?
I questioned the positional need/fit but the more I have looked the more I think you have to take Allen on pure value and do whatever necessary to integrate him.
I don't have much interest in Garrett as a no way possible player. How about a better question...
Barnett versus Jonathan Allen?
I questioned the positional need/fit but the more I have looked the more I think you have to take Allen on pure value and do whatever necessary to integrate him.
Posted on 4/22/17 at 10:37 am to bonethug0108
Just double checked and Barnett has 19 sacks against guys in the nfl or are guaranteed to be in the nfl (unless you think Robinson and Holden won't even be UDFAs).
Just stop the bullshite. 19 vs. 10. Barnett can do it against nfl caliber players. Several 1st rounders to boot.
And he still has 8 more sacks against guys projected to be drafted late or be UDFAs this year. And 3 more against guys projected to be drafted and the next 2 years.
He only had 2 sacks against guys likely to never make the nfl. Garrett had 18 of those.
Just stop the bullshite. 19 vs. 10. Barnett can do it against nfl caliber players. Several 1st rounders to boot.
And he still has 8 more sacks against guys projected to be drafted late or be UDFAs this year. And 3 more against guys projected to be drafted and the next 2 years.
He only had 2 sacks against guys likely to never make the nfl. Garrett had 18 of those.
This post was edited on 4/22/17 at 11:04 am
Posted on 4/22/17 at 10:43 am to blueslover
And Barnett's tape is very good.
Tape? Check
Production? Check
Production against NFL caliber opponents? Check
3 cone? Check
Hand? Check
Body bend? Check
Run defense? Check
Speed? Not so much straight line
Pass rush moves? One main with the other undeveloped
Angle to the QB? Gets washed out too often (yet still had 32 sacks)
On Allen, if he somehow falls you definitely have to look, but we already have so many big bodies. He may be too good to pass over though. That's a tough one. Do you just go all big line? Everyone would be around 300 lbs.
Tape? Check
Production? Check
Production against NFL caliber opponents? Check
3 cone? Check
Hand? Check
Body bend? Check
Run defense? Check
Speed? Not so much straight line
Pass rush moves? One main with the other undeveloped
Angle to the QB? Gets washed out too often (yet still had 32 sacks)
On Allen, if he somehow falls you definitely have to look, but we already have so many big bodies. He may be too good to pass over though. That's a tough one. Do you just go all big line? Everyone would be around 300 lbs.
Posted on 4/22/17 at 11:25 am to bonethug0108
Just so I'm clear you are counting the guys that will be undrafted for Barnett but not for Garrett?
Posted on 4/22/17 at 11:34 am to Lester Earl
I counted the UDFAs that are in the league already (1 or 2), and the guys that are projected 4th round or higher this year, and that's 19 sacks. Against guys that are or will be in the nfl this year.
Those 18 sacks for Garrett are against guys that aren't in the nfl and aren't projected as UDFAs (they had a 999 of 200 ranking on draft scouts). I'll go back and look for names. They were very hard to find and for good reason.
A guaranteed 19 sacks (and maybe as many as 30) for Barnett came against guys that are or will be in the nfl.
Only as many as 13 can be said for Garrett (still haven't checked the other 3).
That's production against nfl caliber players.
Those 18 sacks for Garrett are against guys that aren't in the nfl and aren't projected as UDFAs (they had a 999 of 200 ranking on draft scouts). I'll go back and look for names. They were very hard to find and for good reason.
A guaranteed 19 sacks (and maybe as many as 30) for Barnett came against guys that are or will be in the nfl.
Only as many as 13 can be said for Garrett (still haven't checked the other 3).
That's production against nfl caliber players.
Posted on 4/22/17 at 11:48 am to bonethug0108
It's going to take time and I have a party for 2:00, but I'll edit this as the day goes. I started with the 3 teams I was unsure off (so these aren't even in the 18; and if the guy is nfl bound I'll take them out after).
Garrett game log
2014
Lamar roster
Guy he faced
Rice roster
Louisiana-Lafayette roster(OL pretty far down)
Guy he faced(might be an UDFA; outside of top 40 ranking)
2015
Arizona State depth chart
Guy he faced(might be an UDFA; outside of top 40 ranking)
Nevada depth chart
Louisville depth chart
Guy he faced(might be an UDFA; outside of top 50 ranking)
2016
And again this isn't to knock Garrett. It's to show that Barnett can hang with the big boys and did so more often than Garrett.
Edit:
So I'll give on that fact that MAYBE a few of these guy could be UDFAs next year or the year after, but being ranked outside of the top 40 at a position puts those prospects low (even lower to actually make a team), and outside the top 50 is a real long shot.
The UDFAs I counted for Barnett in the 19 (not the 27) actually made rosters and are still playing (1 even started a few games).
Garrett game log
2014
Lamar roster
Guy he faced
Rice roster
Louisiana-Lafayette roster(OL pretty far down)
Guy he faced(might be an UDFA; outside of top 40 ranking)
2015
Arizona State depth chart
Guy he faced(might be an UDFA; outside of top 40 ranking)
Nevada depth chart
Louisville depth chart
Guy he faced(might be an UDFA; outside of top 50 ranking)
2016
And again this isn't to knock Garrett. It's to show that Barnett can hang with the big boys and did so more often than Garrett.
Edit:
So I'll give on that fact that MAYBE a few of these guy could be UDFAs next year or the year after, but being ranked outside of the top 40 at a position puts those prospects low (even lower to actually make a team), and outside the top 50 is a real long shot.
The UDFAs I counted for Barnett in the 19 (not the 27) actually made rosters and are still playing (1 even started a few games).
This post was edited on 4/22/17 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 4/22/17 at 2:02 pm to Chad504boy
Jarvis Jones 2.0.
No thank you.
No thank you.
Posted on 4/22/17 at 2:18 pm to FitzBlitz52
quote:
The case against Derek Barnett
All of the scouting reports I've read on him say he has "elite hands that are ready for the NFL" that has me excited.
but the true test is going to be if he can get open on NFL corners
Posted on 4/22/17 at 6:20 pm to Rand AlThor
quote:
I wouldn't even call it snap anticipation. The guy guessed snap counts. He has taken a boatload of penalties for it, too.
You obviously never watched Pat Swilling, Rickey Jackson, Derrick Thomas or Lawrence Taylor play. You live with the occasional offsides penalties because you know sooner or later a player like this will make a big play for you. Nobody guessed more snap counts than Derrick Thomas. It's one of the main reasons he holds the NFL record for sacks in a game.
Derrick Thomas Highlights
Lastly, because of the crowd noise in the Dome, jumping or guessing snap counts creates a huge advantage for the edge rusher over a tackle.
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