re: Has govt ever defied a president like this?

quote:

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R's won't have to use the nuclear option, at least this round. There are D's in the senate up for reelection in red states.

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This is how I read your post.

Do you really think enough D's will succumb to grassroots pressure to overcome the filibuster?? and then have to live with the ire of their 'tolerance loving' brethren D's in the future? They don't like sitting/chairing the plum committee assignments?

I don't have that much confidence in the integrity of any DEM in national office at the moment - I am beginning to even doubt Manchin.