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re: What do you attribute the migration change to?
Posted on 10/14/16 at 12:21 pm to bluemoons
Posted on 10/14/16 at 12:21 pm to bluemoons
quote:
Also, pressure absolutely affects duck migration. If you went on a trip every place to the same year, and some guy shoots at you every time you go, you're eventually going to go somewhere else
I don't really agree with this. You're telling me all these birds (a lot o jeveniles) say, aww shite man lets not fly to Venice because last year we got shot at? No way dude. Sure they may avoid areas once they are here and starting to rest, but I highly doubt what you're talking about changes their migration patterns.
Posted on 10/14/16 at 12:25 pm to PapaPogey
Basically the point that has been made. On a localized level, pressure isn't going to affect the flyway migration. But, on a landscape level, it could affect it, to a degree.
The thing is, it isn't as much of a factor as weather and food availability in agricultural fields
The thing is, it isn't as much of a factor as weather and food availability in agricultural fields
Posted on 10/14/16 at 12:27 pm to Cowboyfan89
quote:
On a localized level, pressure isn't going to affect the flyway migration. But, on a landscape level, it could affect it, to a degree.
Right, but the OP is about migration. Jumping from one side of a parish to another isn't a migration issue.
Eta: the ducks aren't just avoiding Delacroix because they got shot at last year. If that was the case, there would be no birds anywhere.
This post was edited on 10/14/16 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 10/14/16 at 12:36 pm to PapaPogey
quote:
Right, but the OP is about migration. Jumping from one side of a parish to another isn't a migration issue.
Again, already stated. In fact, I even made that very same point on the second page.
Posted on 10/14/16 at 12:44 pm to Cowboyfan89
My bad I just responded as I read and never got to your comments.
Also, I'm glad I don't hunt popular areas where I have to deal with "new" hunters. If I had to deal with shite every weekend, I'd be worn out.
Also, I'm glad I don't hunt popular areas where I have to deal with "new" hunters. If I had to deal with shite every weekend, I'd be worn out.
This post was edited on 10/14/16 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 10/14/16 at 1:00 pm to Cowboyfan89
Why are there three million birds here early? Cause we still have some food, they came here cause it was time to pick up and leave. Not because everything was snowed in.
Posted on 10/14/16 at 1:07 pm to Cowboyfan89
quote:Can you restate your questions?
If this were the case, then why do we have any ducks in Louisiana in September, October, November? Why did we have an estimate of over 3 million birds last November when we had multiple cold fronts coming through?
Posted on 10/14/16 at 1:14 pm to PapaPogey
quote:
I don't really agree with this. You're telling me all these birds (a lot o jeveniles) say, aww shite man lets not fly to Venice because last year we got shot at? No way dude. Sure they may avoid areas once they are here and starting to rest, but I highly doubt what you're talking about changes their migration patterns.
That's exactly what I'm saying. Migration is a product of evolution and Darwinism is very real. Young birds have evolved over time to follow certain flyways and migration patterns, and the non-inherent element of that migration involves following older birds. So eventually, the heavier pressure received by the older birds trickles down to young birds.
As Cowboy said, I think the point was clarified and made on the second page. I don't believe it's a major contributing factor to the change in migration at all, but it certainly has an impact, and the scale of that impact is directly related to the scale of pressure. Again, I've seen all of this firsthand. As you stated yourself, you don't hunt a heavily pressured area, so I understand the skepticism.
quote:
Right, but the OP is about migration. Jumping from one side of a parish to another isn't a migration issue.
Again, and this is entirely hypothetical, but depending on the scale of the pressure it could certainly become a migration issue. One side of a particular parish to the other, then out of that parish entirely, then out of the region entirely.
Obviously this contemplates a very large scale of pressure, and I don't think that will ever happen. That said, if you change a bird's migration destination by 1 mile or 50 miles, it's a change nonetheless.
This post was edited on 10/14/16 at 1:26 pm
Posted on 10/14/16 at 1:41 pm to bluemoons
I was just thinking of migration as mass movement down a main flyway whether that's central, Mississippi, or whatever. It could happen I suppose
This post was edited on 10/14/16 at 1:49 pm
Posted on 10/14/16 at 1:48 pm to bluemoons
quote:Right, but I think the OP is about not as many ducks coming to La. period. I don't think pressure has anything to do with that.
Obviously this contemplates a very large scale of pressure, and I don't think that will ever happen. That said, if you change a bird's migration destination by 1 mile or 50 miles, it's a change nonetheless.
Posted on 10/14/16 at 2:17 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
Right, but I think the OP is about not as many ducks coming to La. period. I don't think pressure has anything to do with that.
At this point, I agree. I just don't ever want to see that happen hah.
Posted on 10/14/16 at 2:22 pm to Cracker
quote:
obama
Trump will make duck hunting great again
Posted on 10/14/16 at 2:28 pm to tigerfoot
Not every species responds to weather in the same manner. Obviously snow is not driving the migration of those early species, like gadwalls, teal, pintails, etc. Mallard migrations are driven by freezes and snow more so than other species, as has been pointed out previously.
These species also take advantage of various food sources, so yes, it stands to reason that the migration is, in part, driven by food demands. But why is it that when we have cold fronts early there are more birds than when we have mild Novembers? It isn't just coincidence. The birds are moving with colder weather and north winds, making the flight less draining. In winters where we have less cold fronts and milder winters, less birds come down.
So, it stands to reason that if in a colder year, more ducks are flying down, and in a milder year, less ducks are traveling down, it is primarily weather driven for most species.
If it were not, if it were primarily food driven for these species, then why is it that ducks can stay north of Louisiana for the majority of the winter during a mild winter, but have to fly down during a cold winter?
The food has become unavailable or the weather has become too harsh for those birds.
These species also take advantage of various food sources, so yes, it stands to reason that the migration is, in part, driven by food demands. But why is it that when we have cold fronts early there are more birds than when we have mild Novembers? It isn't just coincidence. The birds are moving with colder weather and north winds, making the flight less draining. In winters where we have less cold fronts and milder winters, less birds come down.
So, it stands to reason that if in a colder year, more ducks are flying down, and in a milder year, less ducks are traveling down, it is primarily weather driven for most species.
If it were not, if it were primarily food driven for these species, then why is it that ducks can stay north of Louisiana for the majority of the winter during a mild winter, but have to fly down during a cold winter?
The food has become unavailable or the weather has become too harsh for those birds.
Posted on 10/14/16 at 2:36 pm to AlxTgr
My question is this:
If migration were driven (speaking primarily here) by food and not by weather, why is it that
A) in a cold winter like 2014 (said last year earlier, but I was mistaken), birds migrate south in large numbers, sometimes as early as November?
And
B) in a mild winter like last year, far less ducks migrate south?
For reference, there were over 3 million birds in Nov 2014 compared to 1.2 mil in Nov 2015.
If migration were driven (speaking primarily here) by food and not by weather, why is it that
A) in a cold winter like 2014 (said last year earlier, but I was mistaken), birds migrate south in large numbers, sometimes as early as November?
And
B) in a mild winter like last year, far less ducks migrate south?
For reference, there were over 3 million birds in Nov 2014 compared to 1.2 mil in Nov 2015.
This post was edited on 10/14/16 at 2:37 pm
Posted on 10/14/16 at 3:18 pm to Cowboyfan89
We had a ton of water early last year also. I'm not sure how the come up with these numbers, but they may have been a bit skewed due to scattered birds.
Posted on 10/14/16 at 3:41 pm to Cowboyfan89
I never really understood why we would see so many Pintail on Catahoula in September. Sure as heck wasn't temperature.
Posted on 10/14/16 at 3:56 pm to AlxTgr
And probably not due to lack of food either.
Some of it is driven by photoperiod as well, just like other species of wildlife. Teal migration is one that is affected by the length of daylight. That is a factor in when the birds go back north to begin breeding, so it's very likely that it plays a part in the onset of migration.
Some of it is driven by photoperiod as well, just like other species of wildlife. Teal migration is one that is affected by the length of daylight. That is a factor in when the birds go back north to begin breeding, so it's very likely that it plays a part in the onset of migration.
This post was edited on 10/14/16 at 3:57 pm
Posted on 10/14/16 at 4:16 pm to HogIslandDuckman
If a duck has feed, his arse ain't freezing to the ground, and he ain't getting shot at, he don't have any reason to fly further south.
This point has been moving a little further north each year for the past several years.
Somewhere in their DNA the drive to want to migrate during a certain time of year is inherited, but I feel like that gene is slowly fading because of several different factors, pertaining to food, weather, and hunting pressure.
This point has been moving a little further north each year for the past several years.
Somewhere in their DNA the drive to want to migrate during a certain time of year is inherited, but I feel like that gene is slowly fading because of several different factors, pertaining to food, weather, and hunting pressure.
This post was edited on 10/14/16 at 4:21 pm
Posted on 10/14/16 at 4:53 pm to Cowboyfan89
As you stated earlier, different species migrate for different reasons. That said, I think you're overestimating a little on the effects of weather. I hate to borrow a liberal talking point, but I think climate (i.e. sustained periods of subfreezing temperature/snow and ice) has more to do with it than individual cold fronts.
Sure cold fronts move birds around, but it doesn't seem like they do in the numbers that they used to. I don't remember the last time I saw a "flight day" where you could walk outside and see wave after wave after wave of ducks and geese going over. Those that do come down don't seem to stick around and often times return north just as soon as things warm back up. I think there's plenty of evidence to show that as long as they have access to food and, just as important, water then a lot of birds are content to stay right where they are.
Any way you look at it, both factors have an effect and they pretty much go hand in hand.
Sure cold fronts move birds around, but it doesn't seem like they do in the numbers that they used to. I don't remember the last time I saw a "flight day" where you could walk outside and see wave after wave after wave of ducks and geese going over. Those that do come down don't seem to stick around and often times return north just as soon as things warm back up. I think there's plenty of evidence to show that as long as they have access to food and, just as important, water then a lot of birds are content to stay right where they are.
Any way you look at it, both factors have an effect and they pretty much go hand in hand.
Posted on 10/14/16 at 5:16 pm to bluemoons
quote:
Especially guys in leases hunting both mornings and afternoons. If you stop giving the ducks a place to rest, they're going to stop coming to your general area. If everyone in your general area does the same, they're going to go somewhere else altogether. It's a pretty simple concept and I've seen it happen over and over again. Especially in the last 6-7 years.
I agree with some of this but I often make afternoon hunts due to my schedule, while my buddy might hunt in the morning. I never sky bust and rarely shoot till legal shooting time in the pm. Many days I don't fire a shot. It can be done if you are not greedy and shoot at everything that comes close. I am usually walking out 5 minutes before shooting time and I have ducks coming in behind me to roost.
I love to hunt and try to go every chance I get. I just don't abuse my area. And no wheelers for me either.
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