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re: What's the best post-punk era album?
Posted on 9/14/16 at 11:38 am to Baloo
Posted on 9/14/16 at 11:38 am to Baloo
quote:
Television and Talking Heads invented punk
And the post punk sound.
quote:
It wasn't until about 1980's when we get what modern ears think of as punk,
So when my brother and I were listening to the crazy punk music and calling it punk in 1976,77 we were listening with modern 80s ears.....Modern 80s Ears was my punk band name in 1978......
quote:
they weren't post-punk because punk didn't exist yet............
Yes it did....see above.
quote:
It wasn't until about 1980's when we get what modern ears think of as punk,
Don't know where you read this but its wrong.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 1:51 pm to Zappas Stache
quote:
And the post punk sound.
Which I am arguing is actually the punk rock sound. Talking Heads, Blondie, Television, et al were all tentpole bands of the CBGB scene from 1976. The term "punk rock" was coined to describe THAT scene. So, Talking Heads very well can't be post something when they were part of the first wave. Punk had a far more diverse and interesting definition, only to get smoothed out to mean "the Ramones" over time.
quote:
So when my brother and I were listening to the crazy punk music and calling it punk in 1976,77 we were listening with modern 80s ears.....Modern 80s Ears was my punk band name in 1978......
Of course you were listening to punk. That's my point. The definition was far broader, and encompassed Talking Heads and Television ,given they were the bands that started it. I didn't say punk rock didn't exist, I even explicitly referenced Year Zero (1977). Clearly punk rock existed then, but it wasn't post-punk yet because we had just barely started punk, and culture didn't move as fast back then.
A simple timeline:
1975: Talking Heads founded
1975-77: CBGB's scene reaches its heyday, along with Max's KC.
1976: Punk magazine founded, "punk rock" term coined to describe the CBGB scene.
1977: Talking Heads' first album
1977: Year Zero, the unofficial re-set start year of punk
quote:
Don't know where you read this but its wrong.
It's observation. Look how we've purged all of the interesting and weird acts out of the definition of punk and made it something else. Those bands were punk, and covered by the bible of punk at the time (Punk! magazine), but we started sanding at the definition and purging anyone from the genre who didn't sound like the Ramones (or from the UK, like the Clash or Sex Pistols).
By the time the initial wave of bands had mostly flamed out, the next generation of punk rock got up and running which was younger and less tied to the art scene (I mean, John Cale was both in the Velvets and Patti Smith Group). And that's where American hardcore comes from, basically around 1980 or 1981. You've got your Black Flags, Minor Threats, and the like, which would eventually become the foundation of what we now think of as punk, while the artier more musical first wave punk bands from the NYC scene instead morphed into post-punk.
Talking Heads aren't considered a punk band anymore because the definition of what is punk changed.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 6:33 pm to Baloo
quote:
The term "punk rock" was coined to describe THAT scene.
The term "Punk" or "Punk Rock" was being used way before the CBGBs scene came along. When it was used to describe CBGBs, it was referring to the scene, not the sound coming from the bands there. But in the early to mid 70s the idea of 3 chords loud and fast as the punk sound was also a recognized idea.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 11:05 pm to PiscesTiger
Love this time frame of music-
Violent Femmes
Camper Van Beethoven -Telephone Free Landslide Victory
Violent Femmes
Camper Van Beethoven -Telephone Free Landslide Victory
Posted on 9/15/16 at 8:22 am to Zappas Stache
quote:
The term "Punk" or "Punk Rock" was being used way before the CBGBs scene came along.
Right. It was originally used as a tag for The Fugs or The Count Five or some of the Nuggets-era bands. Holstrom and McNeil just appropriated it because they knew they had to get the scene under one umbrella in order to market it. Of course they didn't realize that's what they were doing (or wouldn't admit to it).
The less aggressive bands like Talking Heads almost immediately got separated off as "new wave" which was coined specifically for marketing purposes because "punk" quickly got a reputation for several negative aspects (poor musical ability, riots, unpredictable violence, vulgarity, etc.) and during the late 70s it was an amazingly polarizing thing. You could literally be physically attacked for being overtly associated with punk music. It happened all the time.
Once new wave got established, that was the real beginning of post-punk. That genre split off when new wave settled into more populist-oriented, less artsy sensibilities. Post-punk was meant to take back the more integrity-driven approach because people tend to forget that between 1979 and somewhere in the early 80s punk was considered "dead" and was very passé during that time. Of course it was thriving way below the surface and would re-emerge in it's more aggressive form (hardcore) not long afterward.
Posted on 9/15/16 at 11:44 am to JinFL
quote:
Camper Van Beethoven
They don't get enough respect for what they did. Several great albums I still listen to.
Telephone Free Landslide Victory
II & III
Camper Van Beethoven
Our Beloved Revolutionary Sweetheart
Key Lime Pie
Posted on 9/15/16 at 12:20 pm to RockAndRollDetective
quote:
Post-punk was meant to take back the more integrity-driven approach because people tend to forget that between 1979 and somewhere in the early 80s punk was considered "dead" and was very passé during that time. Of course it was thriving way below the surface and would re-emerge in it's more aggressive form (hardcore) not long afterward.
Absolutely. The more cerebral, artier bands got re-classified as post-punk and the simpler "dumber" bands got labelled as punk. In the US, at that point, it was just the Ramones. Which is also why hardcore, initially, had almost no presence in New York City. You look at the hotbeds of hardcore, it was DC, Boston, LA, San Fran, and Chicago... there wouldn't be a major NYC scene until the mid-80s when the Cro-Mags and Agnostic Front finally burst through. Part of that is the fallout from how thoroughly the CBGB scene crashed and fell out of favor.
Hell, during that late 70s, early 80s period, the Ramones were barely a punk band. They tried their hands at both pop and then metal. Anything to get airplay. The hardcore scene largely turned their backs on the Ramones, who didn't regain their cultural cachet until the mid to late 80s. Really a shame. By the time they got sober, they were a nostalgia act. They never really reaped the rewards of a scene they fostered.
You're also right about the violence. There's a great Ian MacKaye interview about how in 1985 he was just done with getting punched in the face. It hurts, and it sucks. That's the unofficial beginning of emo, though he loathes the term. The Boston hardcore bands were like gangs They'd beat the living hell out of you. SSD and their fans were the worst.
Posted on 9/15/16 at 1:31 pm to Baloo
quote:Pleasant Dreams is such a great album.
Hell, during that late 70s, early 80s period, the Ramones were barely a punk band. They tried their hands at both pop and then metal.
Posted on 9/17/16 at 1:00 am to PiscesTiger
Not the best of the era, but check out Cactus World News- "Urban Beaches"
A pleasant surprise if you've never heard of them. Very typical of that sound and "Church of the Cold" is a great song.
Also, The Thought with their self-titled album from 1985.
A pleasant surprise if you've never heard of them. Very typical of that sound and "Church of the Cold" is a great song.
Also, The Thought with their self-titled album from 1985.
This post was edited on 9/17/16 at 1:13 am
Posted on 9/18/16 at 3:49 pm to PiscesTiger
Big Audio Dynamite - This Is Big Audio Dynamite. I played this tape and Violent Femmes - Violent Femmes so much that the tapes dragged through the songs because they didn't roll well anymore in the player. (If that makes sense)
Posted on 9/18/16 at 11:41 pm to Zappas Stache
quote:
Sonic Youth. Daydream Nation
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