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re: Clayton Kershaw cumulative regular season stats since July 24th, 2012
Posted on 5/30/16 at 4:58 pm to WestCoastAg
Posted on 5/30/16 at 4:58 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:Based on his regular season you expect it all the time and it hasn't happened which is why he has garnered the rep he has.
We have no idea when that shite is going to happen.
quote:I see a lot have Kershaw, Arrieta, Fernandez, DeGroom, Harvey, Sale, Scherezer, Synderaard, G. Cole, S. Strasburg, and F. Hernandez ahead of him. I mean you could make an argument for them.
feels like most have him as a fringe top 5 pitcher
Posted on 5/30/16 at 5:03 pm to tduecen
quote:he has this rep because of two games
the rep he has
Posted on 5/30/16 at 5:13 pm to WestCoastAg
No he has it because of more than just two games... He has it because when the Dodgers have needed a shut-down performance from their best pitcher he hasn't always delivered. That goes all the way back 2009 even if you don't include it, he was the best pitcher for them and faltered in the postseason.
Posted on 5/30/16 at 5:20 pm to tduecen
quote:not really. Take away any one of those 2 meltdowns and have a 3 run, 6/7 inning game and we aren't having this conversation. If game 1 of the 2014 NLDS was like game 1 in 2015, the Dodgers win the game, possibly win the series, and people just shrug their shoulders at it all
No he has it because of more than just two games
quote:and he wasn't in the top 2 or 3 of our rotation and only started one game in all of the 2009 playoffs. He just didn't have a major role on our team even if he pitched well
he was the best pitcher for them
This post was edited on 5/30/16 at 5:21 pm
Posted on 5/30/16 at 5:25 pm to WestCoastAg
2009 he was the best pitcher on the staff with a 2.79 ERA and 30 starts. You can claim he started the year as the #3 or whatever but he was the best pitcher on the staff easily.
Posted on 5/30/16 at 5:31 pm to tduecen
quote:I mean he was. He was absolutely the best pitcher on the staff, but he wasn't the pitcher we were going to go to when we needed a win. If we are down 3-1 in 2013 and Kershaw is on 5 days rest, he's going to go. Not Vincent Padilla like in 2009
You can claim he started the year as the #3
Posted on 5/30/16 at 5:36 pm to WestCoastAg
That is like saying last year Arrieta was a #2 when he was the ace of that staff.... don't care where you start it is about how you finish
Posted on 5/30/16 at 5:44 pm to tduecen
quote:and Kershaw finished like he was a mid of the rotation pitcher. That was his role at that time. Kershaw wouldn't have started a one game playoff in 2009 like Arrieta did last year.
don't care where you start it is about how you finish
Posted on 5/30/16 at 5:57 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:He finished with the lowest ERA so no he did not finish like a mid-rotation pitcher.
Kershaw finished like he was a mid of the rotation pitcher
quote:Mainly because they didn't have the 1 game playoff. However, had they started Wolf in that Kershaw would have started the 1st game of the following series. He started game 2 vs the Cardinals and then started game 1 vs Phillies in the NLCS.
Kershaw wouldn't have started a one game playoff in 2009 like Arrieta did last year.
Dodgers have faith in him, Kershaw also wasn't almost 30 like Arrieta going into a 1 game playoff, however, he was their best pitcher that season.
This post was edited on 5/30/16 at 5:59 pm
Posted on 5/30/16 at 6:01 pm to tduecen
quote:you know what I meant when I said that
finished with the lowest ERA so no he did not finish like a mid-rotation pitcher
quote:right. We didnt try to align our rotation so Kershaw would pitch game 1, like we would do now, and then we passed on him in an elimination game when he was on a full 5 days rest
He started game 2 vs the Cardinals and then started game 1 vs Phillies in the NLCS.
quote:I have said that multiple times, but for whatever reason that wasn't his role
however, he was their best pitcher that season
Eta: I take my comment about rotation alignment back. I remember that we had the division clinched by our final series against the Rockies but we hadn't
This post was edited on 5/30/16 at 6:04 pm
Posted on 5/30/16 at 6:04 pm to WestCoastAg
Exactly the Dodgers may not have thought of him as the #1 and did not put that pressure on him but he was the staff ace that season. The numbers back that up.
He would have have pitched had the Dodgers gone further and been a significant piece.
He would have have pitched had the Dodgers gone further and been a significant piece.
Posted on 5/30/16 at 6:07 pm to tduecen
quote:the point is he didn't. Yes, he was the best pitcher on the Dodgers staff in 2009, but the Dodgers didn't treat him like such and that's why I just shrug at his playoff shite prior to 2013. Just a completely different situation
He would have have pitched had the Dodgers gone further and been a significant piece
Posted on 5/30/16 at 7:21 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:Yet they treated him like he was an important piece, hence starting game 1 of the LCS. So obviously the Dodgers treated him like an ace even if they didn't give him game one over Wolf. The whole game 1 thing is BS really. As we've seen pitchers who were not considered the "ace" step up and become the ace over the course of the year and playoffs. The fact is he was the best pitcher and the Dodgers had enough faith in him to start him in a game 1 of a championship series when they could have turned to an established vet.
ut the Dodgers didn't treat him like such
Posted on 5/30/16 at 7:31 pm to tduecen
quote:if this was true, he would have started game 5
Dodgers treated him like an ace even if they didn't give him game one over Wolf
quote:wasn't even really talking about not playing game 1 when we couldn't move the rotation around because we still had to clinch the division
The whole game 1 thing is BS really. As we've seen pitchers who were not considered the "ace" step up and become the ace over the course of the year and playoffs
quote:but not enough faith to play him in an elimination game when he was on a full 5 days rest
The fact is he was the best pitcher and the Dodgers had enough faith in him to start him in a game 1 of a championship series when they could have turned to an established vet.
Posted on 5/30/16 at 7:53 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:He was 20 at the time, I have no issue with them not running him in game 5 (which he did see action and he struggled just as in game 1) That reminds me of the Yankees in 04 vs Boston. Rather than putting Hernandez in they turned to their game 3 starter in Brown. The Dodgers went with a older player and pitched Kershaw early in the game to keep the score close. It did not happen, that doesn't mean they didn't trust him. They obviously did starting him in G1.
if this was true, he would have started game 5
quote:again not relevant for me, they had faith in him. He struggled in game 1 and went with experience in a tight situation. He came in to keep the game close and could not do that.
ut not enough faith to play him in an elimination game when he was on a full 5 days rest
Kershaw has a rep as a pitcher who can not do it in the postseason. This is because his regular season has been so dominant that he has not carried that over into the postseason. Until he has a run like Bumgarner he won't drop this rep. He needs a dominating postseason without a blow up which he has not had yet. 6 innings and 3 earned runs is not a Kershaw performance and not what teams expect from their #1 in the postseason.
Posted on 5/30/16 at 8:21 pm to SPEEDY
quote:
SO: 970
BB: 155
That's so fricking stupid
Posted on 5/30/16 at 8:24 pm to tduecen
quote:my exact point. He was 20 at the time and was not asked to carry the team like he is now. I could care less about how he played in 2008 or 2009 when it was such a drastically different situation then as it is now
He was 20 at the time,
quote:and he did OK in the LDS. Them being scared after one game points to how they maybe didn't really trust him to put the team on his back like they do now
He struggled in game 1
quote:I mean frick. One of those came 100 pitches into him on short rest after he was getting babipd and another came from when the bullpen couldn't get a third out. His last two 3 ER games in the playoffs are the exact definition of shite happens
6 innings and 3 earned runs is not a Kershaw performance and not what teams expect from their #1 in the postseason
Posted on 5/30/16 at 9:05 pm to WestCoastAg
Then we should only look at Bumgarner and his 2014 performance because in the previous years he was young and they didn't trust him enough.
quote:A starter should not worry about they bullpen getting the 3rd out. They should be performing, which is something he has not done as well during the playoffs compared to the regular season.
One of those came 100 pitches into him on short rest after he was getting babipd and another came from when the bullpen couldn't get a third out. His last two 3 ER games in the playoffs are the exact definition of shite happens
Posted on 5/30/16 at 9:12 pm to tduecen
quote:I have already said that I acknowledge that bumgarner was young and that he was even coming out in relief at that point when I actually went to look at it. So yea, I can say whatever to his play in 2010 and 2012
Then we should only look at Bumgarner and his 2014 performance because in the previous years he was young and they didn't trust him enough.
quote:which he was. He had given up 1 run when he was brought out. I put that game on mattingly more than anything because he should have gone to kenley
A starter should not worry about they bullpen getting the 3rd out. They should be performing,
quote:which I do ultimately agree with because of his two meltdowns, but he's basically been that outside of his two meltdowns. The worst we can say is that he gave up 3 runs twice when both times were the prime definition of shite happens in baseball.
which is something he has not done as well during the playoffs compared to the regular season
This post was edited on 5/30/16 at 9:13 pm
Posted on 5/30/16 at 9:13 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:Mattingly is a great manager who trusted his ace who did not deliver
I put that game on mattingly more than anything because he should have gone to kenley
quote:Which is not standard Kershaw....
he gave up 3 runs twice when both times were the prime definition of shite happens in baseball.
I'm arguing Kershaw is better than Arrieta on FB and then here. It is a great day to debate...
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