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re: NBA culture
Posted on 5/27/16 at 10:41 am to Boomshockalocka
Posted on 5/27/16 at 10:41 am to Boomshockalocka
quote:
You gotta use your eyes instead of just looking at the #s.
I just find it hard to believe myself, that Curry is the best player in the league when in my eyes he isn't even the best at his position.
I think scoring in double-digits in the three main statistics in the sport is telling as to how 'complete' a player is.
I do see you're side though.
And Jason Kidd is definitely up there as one of the best PG's of all time.
0
Posted on 5/27/16 at 10:51 am to McCaigBro69
quote:
Westbrook is by far a better PG than Curry will ever be all-around.
LOL Curry is a better defender, as good as a passer and a much better shooter. So please tell me again how Westbrook is far better? What he is a better rebounder? That is a really important stat for PGs
Posted on 5/27/16 at 10:53 am to jptiger2009
perimeter players have it easy now.
hand checking is gone.
the hard foul is gone.
little guys would be killed if they went in for a driving layup after making 4 in a row from the corner.
so old timers whine.
hand checking is gone.
the hard foul is gone.
little guys would be killed if they went in for a driving layup after making 4 in a row from the corner.
so old timers whine.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 10:54 am to CelticDog
quote:Someone link PrimeTime's thread please.
perimeter players have it easy now.
quote:And? They'd get up and make 4 more corner 3s in a row, not sure what your point is.
little guys would be killed if they went in for a driving layup after making 4 in a row from the corner.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 10:54 am to Jcorye1
quote:
People are starting to turn on Curry too.
Anytime you have someone on a professional sports level that is playing at a high level, they're going to get hyped. Inevitably they're also going to get hated on. And someone, somewhere will start throwing around superlatives like "Best Ever" or "Greatest Ever" with detractors. The growth of the social media/internet culture just puts it in all of our faces, all of the time so it feels like it's worse than ever.
That all said, some of those older guys were hyped that way just in different mediums (i.e. product placement, TV advertising, movie roles, etc). Look at how saturated the media/advertising/entertainment market got with Shaq in his prime for example. Someone is always going to be pushed as "the best". Sometimes it's right and sometimes it's just subject of the hype.
The reality is there will always be the ever-evolving GOAT arguments. Whether it's in past culture, current culture, or future culture. The only thing that's "new" is the delivery of the hype. And you're always going to have the "Well in my time..." arguments too. There were guys saying that about Jordan and Co. when they were playing. And there's always going to be players who feel that they are more deserving of the hype. That's what makes them competitors.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 10:55 am to CelticDog
quote:
perimeter players have it easy now.
hand checking is gone.
the hard foul is gone.
little guys would be killed if they went in for a driving layup after making 4 in a row from the corner.
so old timers whine.
LOL I love this argument. So basically fouls are called the way they should be and you can't take cheap shots to get an advantage on your opponent. Oh the good old days.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 11:02 am to ssgtiger
quote:
Curry is a better defender
I disagree. Westbrook has made him look like an infant all series.
quote:
as good as a passer and a much better shooter
Agree on this.
quote:
What he is a better rebounder? That is a really important stat for PGs
Does being a good rebounding PG hurt your team?
Posted on 5/27/16 at 11:03 am to ssgtiger
quote:
Curry is a better defender
What? Than who?
This post was edited on 5/27/16 at 11:04 am
Posted on 5/27/16 at 11:05 am to shel311
Posted on 5/27/16 at 11:06 am to McCaigBro69
quote:By most accounts, Curry has played really good D when iso'd on Westbrook this series.
I disagree. Westbrook has made him look like an infant all series
quote:No, does it make up for the vast cap in their scoring efficiency?
Does being a good rebounding PG hurt your team?
Posted on 5/27/16 at 11:26 am to ssgtiger
quote:
LOL I love this argument. So basically fouls are called the way they should be and you can't take cheap shots to get an advantage on your opponent. Oh the good old days.
" The way they should be called..." as when Harden & others flop around untouched so much that the League has to implement Flopping rules this era?
When the League has to implement a Flop rule ( that they don't enforce enough) you should just admit that the game is simply soft.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 11:28 am to shel311
quote:
By most accounts, Curry has played really good D when iso'd on Westbrook this series
Do you have any stats or an article on this? Buddy of mine had a debate with me the other day claiming Curry's defense is "average at best", however the metrics say otherwise.
ETA: found something LINK
This post was edited on 5/27/16 at 11:34 am
Posted on 5/27/16 at 11:34 am to kadillak
quote:I can peek around.
Do you have any stats or an article on this? Buddy of mine had a debate with me the other day claiming Curry's defense is "average at best", however the metrics say otherwise.
But also remember, playing good defense on Westbrook won't alway show up on the statsheet. If Curry "holds" Westbrook to a 3 or jumpshot that's a win for Curry. If Curry just stays in front of him on one of those blur type drives to the basket, that's a win for Curry. Rather than saying it's a win, it's probably better to say Curry has done his job, all he can do. If Westbrook makes those shots, it doesn't change whether or not Curry played good D because no human in the world can stop Westbrook 1 on 1 by themselves with no help.
This post was edited on 5/27/16 at 11:37 am
Posted on 5/27/16 at 11:39 am to kadillak
quote:
Do you have any stats or an article on this? Buddy of mine had a debate with me the other day claiming Curry's defense is "average at best", however the metrics say otherwise.
Look we know the plan for Steph on D. Ideally they're going to switch Klay or Barnes onto his man and let him hide in the corner.
The stats don't tell the whole story here. Westbrook is going to consistently guard the other teams PG no matter who it is. Westbrook's defensive efficiency, rating, whatever you want to use is going to be lower because there's so much of a larger sample size, he's asked to play more defense against top scorers.
I don't know how anyone can see the two players play and conclude that Steph's a better defender. Can't simply use the stats for this one. That's just lazy thinking. On the other hand he's much better than Harden because Steph tries. But he's not a great defender either.
This post was edited on 5/27/16 at 11:43 am
Posted on 5/27/16 at 11:42 am to Goldrush25
Westbrook gets lost a lot on D. Even without a rooting interest, it was maddening last night watching how many times he'd just completely lose sight of where Curry was. Curry of all people.
That being said, if I were GS, I'd do everything I could to get Curry off of Westbrook, even though I mentioned he's playing good D. I just think the toll it takes on Curry physically may be affecting his offensive game.
But all that being said, Curry is playing solid, very good D on Westbrook.
That being said, if I were GS, I'd do everything I could to get Curry off of Westbrook, even though I mentioned he's playing good D. I just think the toll it takes on Curry physically may be affecting his offensive game.
But all that being said, Curry is playing solid, very good D on Westbrook.
This post was edited on 5/27/16 at 11:43 am
Posted on 5/27/16 at 11:47 am to shel311
quote:numbers show that he's had the most success from his team of guarding Westbrook.
But all that being said, Curry is playing solid, very good D on Westbrook.
His defense on Durant on the last couple of minutes last night was very good
Posted on 5/27/16 at 11:56 am to shel311
Yeah I'm definitely not saying Curry is a better defender than Westbrook. Like you said, some metrics show that Curry is better on that end, however Curry does benefit from slightly inflated numbers because who is guarding. Which is fine, I completely understand that. My argument really is that calling Curry "average at best" on defense is absurd, because although his numbers do get a slight bump, he's still consistently good across the board in most defensive metrics.
And even if you are guarding the worst wing like Curry often does, he still negatively impacts that wing's field goal percentage every single night. In my opinion, no matter who you are guarding, if you negatively impact the guy you are guarding, you are playing good defense. Obviously I wouldn't put on LeBron/Kawhi lockdown defender level or anything, but he's a good defender.
I think too many people run with the narrative of GS "hides" Curry on defense by sticking him on the worst wing. While true, Kerr decides to do this out of luxury rather than necessity. Curry CAN defend these players well, but like Shell alluded to, it doesn't make much sense to wear down Curry on that end of the floor when you have other elite wing defenders at your disposal like GS has.
And even if you are guarding the worst wing like Curry often does, he still negatively impacts that wing's field goal percentage every single night. In my opinion, no matter who you are guarding, if you negatively impact the guy you are guarding, you are playing good defense. Obviously I wouldn't put on LeBron/Kawhi lockdown defender level or anything, but he's a good defender.
I think too many people run with the narrative of GS "hides" Curry on defense by sticking him on the worst wing. While true, Kerr decides to do this out of luxury rather than necessity. Curry CAN defend these players well, but like Shell alluded to, it doesn't make much sense to wear down Curry on that end of the floor when you have other elite wing defenders at your disposal like GS has.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 12:02 pm to kadillak
quote:
I think too many people run with the narrative of GS "hides" Curry on defense by sticking him on the worst wing. While true, Kerr decides to do this out of luxury rather than necessity. Curry CAN defend these players well, but like Shell alluded to, it doesn't make much sense to wear down Curry on that end of the floor when you have other elite wing defenders at your disposal like GS has.
I mean, it's good coaching.
I'm not saying that they hide Steph because he's a poor defender. They do it to conserve his energy on that side of the ball and to allow better defenders an opportunity to stop the more dangerous players.
That's smart coaching to do that, but he's not a great defender either. He does what's he's asked to do. I just took exception to someone saying that he's better than Westbrook and pointing to defensive efficiency or real +/- as evidence of that.
This post was edited on 5/27/16 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 5/27/16 at 12:05 pm to jptiger2009
GS won it all last year and it was kind of a coming out party. This year magical season and another MVP for Curry. Even if they do not make it to the finals. Curry gets a pass because this will be the first time he fails.
Just like LeBron when he was with the Cavs the first time and Durant when OKC lost in the finals.
If next year this happens you will see people questioning stuff about Curry.
Just like LeBron when he was with the Cavs the first time and Durant when OKC lost in the finals.
If next year this happens you will see people questioning stuff about Curry.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 12:05 pm to Goldrush25
Oh yeah, I wasn't really directing that at you; moreso at the "LOL CURRY PLAYS NO DEFENSE" crowd.
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