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Posted on 4/4/16 at 1:49 pm to Funky Tide 8
Ewoks were like using the wrong fork at dinner.
Jar Jar was like fondling a stranger's chick.
Jar Jar was like fondling a stranger's chick.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 2:06 pm to DelU249
quote:I can't believe you had the balls to even list that one.
Return to oz
The "Gary Kurtz is the real genius behind Star Wars" routine is pretty thin, man. Lucas' filmography is far more impressive, all things considered.
Personally, I think George Lucas is to blame for the "Empire is the best one" movement. The prequels sucked so much that it sparked a hatred for everything he's been in charge of.
However, if film students are continually instructed to say that Citizen Kane is the greatest film of all time because of its impact on the industry, I think that Star Wars can be said to have overcome that status for the same reason.
Seriously. I blasted off and was transported to a galaxy far far away, and the world was not the same when I left that theater. Star Wars is a watershed in human history, not just a film. Hate on Mr. Lucas all you like. He changed the world with that movie.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 2:09 pm to blueboy
While I think empire is the better film I won't begrudge the original its place. It is one of the best films simply by virtue of its impact.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 2:12 pm to blueboy
I don't think he's the genius behind it but conceptually it was both Kurtz and Lucas. Lucas was the idea man, Kurtz was the filter those ideas went through
I list return to oz because visually, it has style and reinforces the role Kurtz had on the production design of Star Wars and empire
We're talking about Jedi, just look at the drop in set quality and the increase with compositing on simple dialogue scenes (lands and han in the hangar bay)
I list return to oz because visually, it has style and reinforces the role Kurtz had on the production design of Star Wars and empire
We're talking about Jedi, just look at the drop in set quality and the increase with compositing on simple dialogue scenes (lands and han in the hangar bay)
Posted on 4/4/16 at 2:13 pm to blueboy
quote:
By whom?
The Wrap citing Empire magazine
Also Total Film's #1, but they're too intertwined with Empire's ranking to be considered separately.
Entertainment Weekly polls Empire as the best Star Wars film
Bloggers, movie critics and movie review websites - too numerous to mention make credible arguments for Empire being the best in the series and a GOAT movie in its own right.
So, this isn't just me, Fox and a few yahoos on the M/TV board saying - it has been a growing consensus for 35 years.
(ETA: Let nothing in my posts in this thread detract from how good I think Star Wars was or how good a filmmaker I think George Lucas was from 1971 to 1990. As good as there has been. There. I said it.)
This post was edited on 4/4/16 at 2:17 pm
Posted on 4/4/16 at 2:20 pm to Ace Midnight
I watched American graffiti, and it's really good, but perhaps because it's one of those "slice of Americana" films
I don't know what happened to George lucas...he ruins everything now
I don't know what happened to George lucas...he ruins everything now
quote:yup...i'm inclined to believe that many people (not blueboy) dismiss the excellence of the film simply because it's a space adventure (i'm sidestepping the genre debate) film "for kids"
So, this isn't just me, Fox and a few yahoos on the M/TV board saying - it has been a growing consensus for 35 years.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 2:21 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:absolutely, saying empire is the better film is like arguing between a Ferrari and lambo...it takes nothing away from the other to say one is better
ETA: Let nothing in my posts in this thread detract from how good I think Star Wars was
but it's empire
Posted on 4/4/16 at 2:25 pm to blueboy
quote:I absolutely agree that the impact is such that it is impossible to dismiss it when judging the movie...star wars is a GOAT movie
continually instructed to say that Citizen Kane is the greatest film of all time because of its impact on the industry, I think that Star Wars can be said to have overcome that status for the same reason.
citizen kane is the better film between those two however
citizen kane I think is the second greatest film behind emire. To me they're equally perfect, but empire is more of what cinema is about...imagination, discovery, adventure
Posted on 4/4/16 at 2:27 pm to Ace Midnight
Tell them what they've won, Chuck.
I don't see Empire anywhere on that list.
Internet generated consensus is bullshite. Hell, 4Chan almost got Kim Jong Un named Time's man of the year.
I don't see Empire anywhere on that list.
Internet generated consensus is bullshite. Hell, 4Chan almost got Kim Jong Un named Time's man of the year.
quote:That's right. Sniff the glove, bitch.
(ETA: Let nothing in my posts in this thread detract from how good I think Star Wars was or how good a filmmaker I think George Lucas was from 1971 to 1990. As good as there has been. There. I said it.)
Posted on 4/4/16 at 2:28 pm to blueboy
quote:oh how I wish I could have seen these movies on the big screen. no doubt star wars is unbeatable in terms of impact not only on audiences but the industry.
Seriously. I blasted off and was transported to a galaxy far far away, and the world was not the same when I left that theater
empire is the movie that made ILM the most in demand company over the next 15 years.
i wonder if lucas was really pissed Cameron didn't use ILM for titanic...I've heard that somewhere before.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 2:28 pm to DelU249
...and let's not forget all those poor independent contractors working on the Death Star in Jedi. Sucking on that fat government tit got them killed.
Poor bastards.
Poor bastards.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 2:29 pm to blueboy
off topic, i wonder if lucas would still be turning everything he touched into gold if he filtered his ideas through people with the balls or willingness to tell him "NO"
Posted on 4/4/16 at 2:31 pm to blueboy
god dammit, i feel roped into having the same discussion it seems we have every six months
Posted on 4/4/16 at 2:38 pm to DelU249
quote:
oh how I wish I could have seen these movies on the big screen.
Well, since that was my generation's "coming of age" - film-wise, I can tell you it was magical. People clapped and cheered at the end in 1977. People left and immediately got in line for tickets to see it again. The average television set in the U.S. was probably a 21" tube model, with a few 25s out there, a few custom bigger, and a handful of projectors. There just weren't surround sound systems in home theaters at that point. For that matter, "home theaters" didn't really exist in any appreciable numbers, outside of the very wealthy. Elvis Presley would famously rent out the entire cinema at midnight to watch a film with his posse.
So, I can say, with no exaggeration that blueboy's position that Star Wars (not Empire) was a seminal film in the history of the medium - that much is definitely true. There are 2 film periods - before Star Wars and after. It completely changed the way all action-oriented films (not just Space Opera/SciFi/Fantasy films, but virtually all big budget action films) were produced, cast, filmed, marketed (co-marketed) and promoted. The serial as the rule, not the exception started with this film. Just a number of things, co-branding, product partnerships, toys, all of those modern practices trace to this film (for good and bad).
And it was that visual/aural spectacle of the first film that started it all.
(Doesn't change the fact that Empire is the better film, from purely an art/literary standpoint, but also a grand spectacle in its own right. It is merely a darker more reality-grounded story, with more emotional response for the average viewer.)
This post was edited on 4/4/16 at 2:40 pm
Posted on 4/4/16 at 2:45 pm to Ace Midnight
what I appreciate about both movies is the risks that were taken
star wars - in terms of bang for the budget buck, unmatched really. lucas went through unbelievable shite to make it and had to have a 3rd unit director when they gave him a hard date. he did it for so little and in that terms, I don't think we've ever seen a movie like it.
empire - all the same risks all over again, except to add to the stresses for lucas he put his own money on the line (and he really doesn't get enough credit for this) making him a modern day walt Disney.
both of these movies were incredibly hard to make and lucas was more than generous with the revenue...say what you will about the guy, people who worked with him and for him refuse to bash any aspect of his work no matter how bad it has been. he must be a really great guy
star wars - in terms of bang for the budget buck, unmatched really. lucas went through unbelievable shite to make it and had to have a 3rd unit director when they gave him a hard date. he did it for so little and in that terms, I don't think we've ever seen a movie like it.
empire - all the same risks all over again, except to add to the stresses for lucas he put his own money on the line (and he really doesn't get enough credit for this) making him a modern day walt Disney.
both of these movies were incredibly hard to make and lucas was more than generous with the revenue...say what you will about the guy, people who worked with him and for him refuse to bash any aspect of his work no matter how bad it has been. he must be a really great guy
This post was edited on 4/4/16 at 2:46 pm
Posted on 4/4/16 at 2:49 pm to DelU249
Your thread. Not mine.
And honestly, I think Lucas' brain went soft while he was living in NoCal wine country. I think that the PC culture constantly in his ear had a huge effect on the prequels sucking, rather than a lack thereof.
Elected queens? Forced political messages? Ham-handed racial pandering? It's got SJW written all over it.
And honestly, I think Lucas' brain went soft while he was living in NoCal wine country. I think that the PC culture constantly in his ear had a huge effect on the prequels sucking, rather than a lack thereof.
Elected queens? Forced political messages? Ham-handed racial pandering? It's got SJW written all over it.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 2:51 pm to blueboy
The prequels and Jedi to a much lesser extent reek of laziness to me
I agree with you about living in Marin county. It's like prison, no matter how you were going in, you come out a hardened criminal
I agree with you about living in Marin county. It's like prison, no matter how you were going in, you come out a hardened criminal
Posted on 4/4/16 at 2:56 pm to blueboy
Speaking of elected queens I did enjoy "pilot" being a unique job description again in TFA
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