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re: I hated The Big Short - spoilers
Posted on 3/17/16 at 9:32 am to H-Town Tiger
Posted on 3/17/16 at 9:32 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
it rigs the system where we privatize earnings but socialize the losses.
JP Morgan didn't need the bail out.
He was against it but essentially had to go along with it. Their books were pretty healthy and they had to eat up some really shitty assets as a result.
Dimon, IMO is one of the more level headed guys. Sure he's a f-ing billionare but he tells it like it is and knows what he's talking about. Much more-so than a lot of CEOs.
1
Posted on 3/17/16 at 9:33 am to STLhog
quote:
I don't think having mandatory leverage requirements is "anti-capitalism". It's simply anti stupidity against those that are motivated to take advantage of it. A fail safe if you will.
i basically agree with you, but if the government didn't bail these big banks out then the lenders would be more careful about loaning money to people that are over leveraged. But a simple ratio limiting the amount of leverage is not over-regulation to be sure.
This post was edited on 3/17/16 at 9:41 am
Posted on 3/17/16 at 9:39 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
i don't entirely disagree with you, but if the government didn't bail these big banks then the lenders would be more careful about loaning money to people that are over leveraged. But a simple ratio limiting the amount of leverage is not over-regulation to be sure.
100% agree. But they essentially had to. It's explained pretty well in the HBO original. Can't think of the name.
Too Big to Fail I think?
Doesn't make it any easier to swallow but it would have been total meltdown if it weren't for that.
Plus the money has been paid back at this point but head should have most def. rolled.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 9:40 am to STLhog
quote:
JP Morgan didn't need the bail out.
He was against it but essentially had to go along with it
I know, they were one of the few in good shape. but they got a lot of guarantees and a sweetheart deal to buy Bear Sterns.
quote:
Dimon, IMO is one of the more level-headed guys
he's still neck deep in a crony system that benefits him/his bank to a large degree. I don't consider him a "free market" advocate so him speaking out in favor of regulations a take with a grain of salt.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 9:45 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
sweetheart deal to buy Bear Sterns.
They've lost a ton of money trying to integrate Bear. Look it up, it's been a nightmare.
From what I understand, they really did it as a favor.. Could all be hindsight from Dimon though but he's a pretty smart cat.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 9:55 am to LeonPhelps
quote:
I am a finance guy.
quote:
frick this movie. They were right and made a lot of money. They should be celebrated.
I think you're an insurance guy. Not a financial guy.
quote:
What I hated about this movie was all of the investors who were right and made a lot of money were all sad and seemingly embarrassed about profiting off of their ideas and conviction. I don't understand that at all. It pissed me off so much. These guys emerged victorious yet the end of the movie had this very somber tone.
The system is still fricked. It dicked over millions of people and what ended up happening? Nothing. Same ole, same ole. I'm part of this shite and wish the big banks and large wirehouses would pay the price for fricking over the average Joe investor.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 9:58 am to STLhog
quote:
But they essentially had to.
Doesn't make it any easier to swallow but it would have been total meltdown if it weren't for that.
Plus the money has been paid back at this point but head should have most def. rolled.
Becomes kind of a circular argument Once they started with bailouts, everyone assumes there is fall back creating the mother of all moral hazards. One overlooked issue with 2008 is they bailed out Bear, but not Lehman, which lead to panic. As a side note, i think the creditors for Lehman were most foreign, Japanese banks, but that's a whole other issue
Another problem with the bailouts is they gave the creditors in some cases dollar for dollar payments. I think in the summer of 2008 AIG was in discussion with creditors about taking a haircut, maybe 60-70 cents on the dollar, but with the bailout they got it all back, so why should they care?
Outside of cases like the LIBOR fraud, I'm not sure who's heads should have rolled? There were a lot of lessons, but i don't think we learned the right ones. Reasonable things like leverage limits are fine along with regs like who can buy a CDS basic stuff like that.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 10:04 am to STLhog
quote:
From what I understand, they really did it as a favor
i always got the impression they were kind of forced into it and it may not have worked out well for them i don't know. I should say they got some guarantees more than sweetheart deal. But i still view Dimon as more of crony capitalist than a pro free market, Milton Friedman type, that's all i meant originally with my first comment to your post stating Dimon disagrees about too much regulation being a problem. In the end he and his bank benefit from the regulations, way more than consumers.
This post was edited on 3/17/16 at 10:09 am
Posted on 3/17/16 at 10:09 am to LeonPhelps
quote:
I have a lot of letters behind my name,
Posted on 3/17/16 at 10:14 am to CBandits82
OP right here.
This post was edited on 3/17/16 at 10:15 am
Posted on 3/17/16 at 10:16 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
This is so wrong. Ironic that you are calling him out for his"religious" belief in capitalism because this is a sort of "religious" belief in itself that has been foisted on people by the government or those who wish to rule. Most of the "evils" of capitalism is cronyism caused by too much government.
I hardly worship at the altar of government fricking control. And it has been proven historically that pure capitalism leads to those who would take advantage of the system to, in all but name, rule the people.
quote:
no, we are not anywhere close, the "oligarcy" is the ruling class built on rules and laws, not free markets
Look fair enough that we don't have an oligarchy by rule of law, but if you think this country is run by the people for the people and not by the few with influence for the few with influence, I would say you're either naïve or wilfully blind. That doesn't mean we are totally fricked or anything, and, in actuality, the free market serves to not only foster but check the few with influence, but it does mean we aren't living in a Democratic Republic in the sense that the average American wants to believe (nor should we necessarily). But this will be the last post I do in this thread as I don't want to make it utterly political.
It was a fine movie that felt to me to be basically School House Rock for adults about a topic of which most people are wholly ignorant.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 10:36 am to LoveThatMoney
quote:
I hardly worship at the altar of government fricking control. And it has been proven historically that pure capitalism leads to those who would take advantage of the system to, in all but name, rule the people.
when and where has this been proven? This is a total myth put forth (mostly) by progressives.
quote:
but if you think this country is run by the people for the people and not by the few with influence for the few with influence, I would say you're either naïve or wilfully blind
i know it is, but i just think it is not that way because we have too much free market and not enough government control, but the other way around. Why do people think that if we had unchecked markets a small cabal will use that to rule all, but somehow they won;t if we have a massive all powerful state seek to control that? I'm not an anarchist, there is a role for some government and some basic, simple regulations, but imo the problem is the crony write the laws to benefit them, not that there aren't enough laws reigning in the markets.
This post was edited on 3/17/16 at 10:49 am
Posted on 3/17/16 at 10:45 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
H-Town Tiger
And around and around we go!
Here's to living in a country that allows us to see a problem and fundamentally disagree about the solution and argue about it in good taste on the internet.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 10:50 am to LoveThatMoney
quote:
Here's to living in a country that allows us to see a problem and fundamentally disagree about the solution and argue about it in good taste on the internet
agreed, thought i'd still like to know where is has been proven that pure capitalism leads to control by the few
Posted on 3/17/16 at 11:10 am to LeonPhelps
Reading your posts in this thread, you seem far too self serving to be managing others assets. It takes a sociopath to not feel bad about shorting the American economy.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 11:14 am to LeonPhelps
You're the fricking worst. That's why the loser in our fantasy football league gets the LeonPhelps Award
Posted on 3/17/16 at 11:19 am to stout
quote:Well im sorry about that but do you think a lot of that Success you were having came from that fraud that was going on. Like fools gold.
I had a pretty good thing going developing subdivisions and building specs before the big time fraud in subprime lending took off that caused it to collapse. Subprime was never perfect but it worked before banks got greedy. I lost a lot and fought with some serious depression over the fallout. You want to tell me everything is fully recovered?
Posted on 3/17/16 at 12:19 pm to LeonPhelps
quote:it never happened. The book even remarks about how Burry never received an apology from the investors he made so much money for.
quote:
It was pretty easily understood that he would
Again, I wanted to see it
Posted on 3/17/16 at 12:51 pm to Books
OP vanished like a fart in the wind.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 1:26 pm to STLhog
I work in the investing world, actually
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