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Message
Who is worse: Walter White or Daniel Plainview? (SPOILERS TIL THE END)
Posted on 3/19/15 at 8:20 pm
Posted on 3/19/15 at 8:20 pm
OK, just got done with Breaking Bad, and I see Walter White as utterly deplorable. I was rooting for Walt taking out Gus, but once he poisoned the kid, sorry, but I started actively rooting for his demise. Really the only other character I can think of who has had such a villainous decompensation is Daniel Plainview, and I still think Walt is worse than him.
Really all Daniel did was murder a guy who was extorting him, and kill a guy where they've always truly hated each other and never trusted one another. What makes Daniel truly horrible to me is what he did to his son, really abandoning him in his hour of need and then in adulthood calling him a bastard and completely disowning him.
Yes, Daniel was a dick, and I'll give Walt that he at least attempted to provide for his children, but everything else I find about him to be much worse than Plainview. From the start he could have avoided all of this by swallowing his pride and accepting the money from his former partners, but he wouldn't take any of it and was willing to put his entire family and Jesse down the Highway to Hell. Despite what he told himself, I don't think he had any plans on quitting from the start and forced Jesse to come down this horrible path with him.
I think he subconsciously despised his wife and son and enjoyed playing them against one another. Strangely I think the only member of his family he actually liked was Hank himself, and thought of this as a long term cat-and-mouse game with him. If he truly put his family first, he could have gotten out of the game much sooner, like when his partners made the offer to him, or tops after he made Gus his first batch. Even after all the shite hit the fan, he could have easily taken the 5 million and gotten away with it as Jesse and Mike insisted. And in the middle of Season 5 when he decides to call it "quits", I think he was really full of shite and that he had every intention of cooking meth again since he already had the money and the resources to get back in any time he wanted to.
But as much as his family got fricked by this, Jesse was his ultimate victim and plaything. Walt's soul I think was pretty much fricked from the start, but Jesse really was an innocent who just had a drug problem. He basically murdered his girlfriend simply because he could. He blackmails Jesse into doing all of his real dirty work. And then when Walt had had at least half a dozen opportunities to walk away from meth cooking before, he poisons Jesse's adopted son in order to convince him to kill the man who would only harm him. Then when all this is done, they have a golden opportunity to take 5 million and walk away, but Walt tries to frick all up for them simply out of spite.
But at least all these had some sort of purpose, as selfish as they were. But what in god's name was he doing at the start of "Ozymandias"? He sells Jesse into slavery, and then simply out of spite he tells Jesse how he basically killed Jane and enjoyed it. There was no benefit to that, especially after all the hell Walt put him through and what he is about to go through. That was just plain evil. At least Plainview just killed Eli after taunting him horribly, which would have honestly been the most kind thing Walt could have done for Jesse at that point considering where he was.
And I haven't even brought up Mike and the countless other people killed in the name of Heisenberg.
So who is worse?
Really all Daniel did was murder a guy who was extorting him, and kill a guy where they've always truly hated each other and never trusted one another. What makes Daniel truly horrible to me is what he did to his son, really abandoning him in his hour of need and then in adulthood calling him a bastard and completely disowning him.
Yes, Daniel was a dick, and I'll give Walt that he at least attempted to provide for his children, but everything else I find about him to be much worse than Plainview. From the start he could have avoided all of this by swallowing his pride and accepting the money from his former partners, but he wouldn't take any of it and was willing to put his entire family and Jesse down the Highway to Hell. Despite what he told himself, I don't think he had any plans on quitting from the start and forced Jesse to come down this horrible path with him.
I think he subconsciously despised his wife and son and enjoyed playing them against one another. Strangely I think the only member of his family he actually liked was Hank himself, and thought of this as a long term cat-and-mouse game with him. If he truly put his family first, he could have gotten out of the game much sooner, like when his partners made the offer to him, or tops after he made Gus his first batch. Even after all the shite hit the fan, he could have easily taken the 5 million and gotten away with it as Jesse and Mike insisted. And in the middle of Season 5 when he decides to call it "quits", I think he was really full of shite and that he had every intention of cooking meth again since he already had the money and the resources to get back in any time he wanted to.
But as much as his family got fricked by this, Jesse was his ultimate victim and plaything. Walt's soul I think was pretty much fricked from the start, but Jesse really was an innocent who just had a drug problem. He basically murdered his girlfriend simply because he could. He blackmails Jesse into doing all of his real dirty work. And then when Walt had had at least half a dozen opportunities to walk away from meth cooking before, he poisons Jesse's adopted son in order to convince him to kill the man who would only harm him. Then when all this is done, they have a golden opportunity to take 5 million and walk away, but Walt tries to frick all up for them simply out of spite.
But at least all these had some sort of purpose, as selfish as they were. But what in god's name was he doing at the start of "Ozymandias"? He sells Jesse into slavery, and then simply out of spite he tells Jesse how he basically killed Jane and enjoyed it. There was no benefit to that, especially after all the hell Walt put him through and what he is about to go through. That was just plain evil. At least Plainview just killed Eli after taunting him horribly, which would have honestly been the most kind thing Walt could have done for Jesse at that point considering where he was.
And I haven't even brought up Mike and the countless other people killed in the name of Heisenberg.
So who is worse?
Posted on 3/19/15 at 8:23 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
but once he poisoned the kid,
Posted on 3/19/15 at 8:23 pm to BlackHelicopterPilot
He poisoned Brock with the flowers.
Posted on 3/19/15 at 8:24 pm to OMLandshark
I thought both were pretty cool and would love to have a beer with either of them.
You can't say "Plainview killed a guy that was extorting him, no biggie" and then give Walt shite for that. She was extorting the shite out of him.
You mess with the bull, you're gonna get the horns. All of those people should have tread lightly, especially that dickhead kid that Walt poisoned.
quote:
He basically murdered his girlfriend simply because he could.
You can't say "Plainview killed a guy that was extorting him, no biggie" and then give Walt shite for that. She was extorting the shite out of him.
quote:
And I haven't even brought up Mike and the countless other people killed in the name of Heisenberg.
You mess with the bull, you're gonna get the horns. All of those people should have tread lightly, especially that dickhead kid that Walt poisoned.
Posted on 3/19/15 at 8:25 pm to THRILLHO
quote:
You can't say "Plainview killed a guy that was extorting him, no biggie" and then give Walt shite for that. She was extorting the shite out of him.
But he had a bit more of a connection to Jesse than Plainview did to someone who was simply fricking him over. That's what separates it for me.
Posted on 3/19/15 at 8:46 pm to OMLandshark
Walter White and it's not close. Daniel killed people that deserved it. Walter directly and indirectly killed a LOT of people. Plus the whole meth thing.
Posted on 3/19/15 at 8:49 pm to OMLandshark
Walter was worse.
Alcohol addiction contributed to Daniel Plainview's deterioration, people using him for money, sand just overall bitterness.
Walter woke up, and he became the monster that he was always meant to be. He had no problem blowing up a nursing home, killing ten men, running over people. He would have killed gale. Saw what he did to Jack's crew, and the whole Jane situation.
Not to mention profiting off the addictions of others. No telling how many lives were ruined by his pure methamphetamine that we didn't see. It took him less than two years to become a callous ruthless tyrant.
Alcohol addiction contributed to Daniel Plainview's deterioration, people using him for money, sand just overall bitterness.
Walter woke up, and he became the monster that he was always meant to be. He had no problem blowing up a nursing home, killing ten men, running over people. He would have killed gale. Saw what he did to Jack's crew, and the whole Jane situation.
Not to mention profiting off the addictions of others. No telling how many lives were ruined by his pure methamphetamine that we didn't see. It took him less than two years to become a callous ruthless tyrant.
Posted on 3/19/15 at 8:58 pm to OMLandshark
Team Walt.
How dare you talk bad about Walter White. The man is the embodiment of the American can-do spirit and self-reliance.
How dare you talk bad about Walter White. The man is the embodiment of the American can-do spirit and self-reliance.
Posted on 3/19/15 at 9:24 pm to MFn GIMP
quote:
How dare you talk bad about Walter White. The man is the embodiment of the American can-do spirit and self-reliance.
He poisoned and killed kids
Posted on 3/19/15 at 10:38 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
He poisoned and killed kids
He never killed one, just poisoned Brock. Todd killed drew sharp and the rival dealers killed the little Mexican boy.
Sometimes I wonder if Gus was being real about killing Walt's son and daughter. He told mike he doesn't believe fear to be a motivator..but he just seemed so frustrated with Walter and lost his cool.
Posted on 3/19/15 at 10:55 pm to SEClint
quote:
He never killed one, just poisoned Brock. Todd killed drew sharp and the rival dealers killed the little Mexican boy.
If Todd wasn't there, what do you think would have happened?
quote:
Sometimes I wonder if Gus was being real about killing Walt's son and daughter. He told mike he doesn't believe fear to be a motivator..but he just seemed so frustrated with Walter and lost his cool.
I do as well. I think Walt was worse than Gus. Gus had to dispose of Victor after he was foolish at the scene of the crime. The only horrible crime I can think of him committing was killing the kid on the bike. Killing the cartels was completely justified.
Posted on 3/19/15 at 11:02 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
If Todd wasn't there, what do you think would have happened?
He wouldn't have killed the kid. No one even knew Todd had a gun, Walt didn't have one and he wouldn't have killed a boy in front of Jesse completely contradicting himself from the speech he used to convince Jesse to help him kill Gus.
He would have had to do it hands on and no way would Jesse have sat back and just let him. Walt is smart enough to come up with a lie, hell..no ones ever robbed that in that way. Train was stopped, could have lied and said they were working.etc.
So I truly don't think Walt would have risked the murder, ruining his relationship with Jesse, etc. Walt was smarter than that.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:10 am to BlackHelicopterPilot
quote:
but once he poisoned the kid,
quote:
BlackHelicopterPilot
God help you if you needed that clarified
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:18 am to SEClint
Jesse is the only factor for not killing the kid. If Walt thought he could get away with it, he would have killed the kid too just to be safe. He doesn't give a frick.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:29 am to OMLandshark
Walt could have,..but he didn't.
Although, he had 0 sympathy for the situation.
Although, he had 0 sympathy for the situation.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:35 am to SEClint
quote:
Although, he had 0 sympathy for the situation.
Kind of my point. He just didn't give a frick besides the fact that Jesse"""overreacted""". If he could have gotten away with that, he would have put a bullet between that kid's eyes just to be safe. Jesse has a conscience unlike Walt. Jesse didn't deserve all the shite that happened to him, and the day Walter White laid eyes on him in that meth bust was the worst day of his life. Jesse would have been much better off rotting away in a jail cell for a few years than spending them enslaved to Walter White.
This post was edited on 3/20/15 at 12:38 am
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:45 am to OMLandshark
One thing I don't understand though is why Jesse told Hank he killed Gale. I really don't think it would take that much of a suspension of disbelief that Walt commanded Jesse to pick him up from his house for some unknown reason, and then they go to Gale's house, Walt kills him, and then by the time he comes out, they find out they're tracked by Victor. Sure Walt would deny it, but it's one more body upon dozens, so I doubt anyone would question the story. Jesse telling Hank he killed Gale though automatically gives him more than a decade in prison though.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:46 am to OMLandshark
He made his own choices though. I'm actually surprised he lived from beginning to finish. He's going to have to be on the run now. His fingerprints are all over that lab, his confession tape is there, his prints were on the gun used to kill jack.
He doesn't have any money, so I don't know what he's going to do. Maybe stop at los Pollos hermanos and get a milkshake before hitting the road. In the eyes of the law he is a drug dealing murderer, who was last with two dea agents before their murder.
Good luck Jesse.
He doesn't have any money, so I don't know what he's going to do. Maybe stop at los Pollos hermanos and get a milkshake before hitting the road. In the eyes of the law he is a drug dealing murderer, who was last with two dea agents before their murder.
Good luck Jesse.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 5:50 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Jesse telling Hank he killed Gale though automatically gives him more than a decade in prison though.
Hank is dead though. Anyone else know?
Posted on 3/20/15 at 8:18 am to Tigertown in ATL
Jack's gang stole his confession tap remember and the only ones who knew about it were Gomez and Hank. Sure there's other evidence, but that can't be used.
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