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Started By
Message
What do you want to see happen with immigration?
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:12 am
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:12 am
I have a fairly deep understanding of the immigration system, the agencies involved, and the relevant law. I'd like to see what the board wants from the government regarding immigration. A few preliminary points:
1) "Just enforce the law and deport illegals" is flat out impossible. ICE and EOIR do not have anything approaching the resources that would be required. I have met with some of the officers from New Orleans and they all confirm this.
2) There is realistically no "get in line and wait" process for anyone without an advanced education, extraordinary ability, or family ties to the US. Your average high school educated Mexican citizen would have to win a spot through the diversity quota lottery system, which is essentially impossible today. I am not saying this is a problem. I just want to dispel the myth that anyone can come here legally if they are patient and law-abiding.
3) We treat illegal entrants vastly different that we treat visa overstays. Someone who overstays a visa for years and then marries an American can have all of their time out of status overlooked under the right circumstances. An illegal entrant faces a 10 year bar to reentry after 6 months of unlawful presence. This means that, despite a marriage to an American, American children, and no criminal record, he can be deported and excluded for a decade. Again, maybe you agree with this, but it causes more problems than it creates because a) no one is waiting a decade to return to their families; they reenter and b) the families often turn to social programs for support while the spouses are gone.
I propose the following:
1. We should dedicate a significant amount of resources to securing the entire southern border. I would even support a drastic cut in defense spending in order to accomplish it. All other legislation should be delayed until the border is secured.
2. Border states should be allowed to enforce some provisions of federal immigration law. ICE and USCBP are massively overextended and need the help. The state authorities should be allowed to assist with enforcement, but leave the judicial proceedings to the feds.
3. Create a new status for illegals who have American immediate relatives (parent, spouse, or unmarried child over 21 years) and no criminal record. There are millions of people in this category that are taxing the resources of the immigration system for no good reason. Make this status contingent upon several factors, including no use of social welfare programs and no criminal convictions whatsoever. Allow these individuals to apply for permanent resident status after 7 years. Once they are LPRs, they can wait another 5 years for citizenship. This gives them a 12 year minimum before voting becomes a right.
4. Create a new form of permanent residency that the aforementioned illegals with American families could apply for after 3 years in the country with no social welfare and no crime. This LPR status would be permanent. It will allow them to remain in the US with their families, work, but never vote. Once granted this type of permanent residency, they cannot adjust to any other status. They can only be deported for crimes of violence or maxing out a "3 strike" felony rule. This will provide an easier and more secure route for those already here who are not willing to put in the 12 years of perfect behavior it would require to become citizens. If they do not apply for this status after 3 years in country, they are automatically presumed to be upon the 7-year LPR track mentioned in part 3. You have to make your choice after 3 years.
There are many other specific things I would do to the immigration system, but they are beyond the scope of this post. I'd like to hear your thoughts on what should be done. The only thing I want to stridently argue is this: the system does not work fine and it is woefully underfunded, undermanned, and overtaxed. Reform is absolutely needed. It is simply a question of what reforms to implement.
1) "Just enforce the law and deport illegals" is flat out impossible. ICE and EOIR do not have anything approaching the resources that would be required. I have met with some of the officers from New Orleans and they all confirm this.
2) There is realistically no "get in line and wait" process for anyone without an advanced education, extraordinary ability, or family ties to the US. Your average high school educated Mexican citizen would have to win a spot through the diversity quota lottery system, which is essentially impossible today. I am not saying this is a problem. I just want to dispel the myth that anyone can come here legally if they are patient and law-abiding.
3) We treat illegal entrants vastly different that we treat visa overstays. Someone who overstays a visa for years and then marries an American can have all of their time out of status overlooked under the right circumstances. An illegal entrant faces a 10 year bar to reentry after 6 months of unlawful presence. This means that, despite a marriage to an American, American children, and no criminal record, he can be deported and excluded for a decade. Again, maybe you agree with this, but it causes more problems than it creates because a) no one is waiting a decade to return to their families; they reenter and b) the families often turn to social programs for support while the spouses are gone.
I propose the following:
1. We should dedicate a significant amount of resources to securing the entire southern border. I would even support a drastic cut in defense spending in order to accomplish it. All other legislation should be delayed until the border is secured.
2. Border states should be allowed to enforce some provisions of federal immigration law. ICE and USCBP are massively overextended and need the help. The state authorities should be allowed to assist with enforcement, but leave the judicial proceedings to the feds.
3. Create a new status for illegals who have American immediate relatives (parent, spouse, or unmarried child over 21 years) and no criminal record. There are millions of people in this category that are taxing the resources of the immigration system for no good reason. Make this status contingent upon several factors, including no use of social welfare programs and no criminal convictions whatsoever. Allow these individuals to apply for permanent resident status after 7 years. Once they are LPRs, they can wait another 5 years for citizenship. This gives them a 12 year minimum before voting becomes a right.
4. Create a new form of permanent residency that the aforementioned illegals with American families could apply for after 3 years in the country with no social welfare and no crime. This LPR status would be permanent. It will allow them to remain in the US with their families, work, but never vote. Once granted this type of permanent residency, they cannot adjust to any other status. They can only be deported for crimes of violence or maxing out a "3 strike" felony rule. This will provide an easier and more secure route for those already here who are not willing to put in the 12 years of perfect behavior it would require to become citizens. If they do not apply for this status after 3 years in country, they are automatically presumed to be upon the 7-year LPR track mentioned in part 3. You have to make your choice after 3 years.
There are many other specific things I would do to the immigration system, but they are beyond the scope of this post. I'd like to hear your thoughts on what should be done. The only thing I want to stridently argue is this: the system does not work fine and it is woefully underfunded, undermanned, and overtaxed. Reform is absolutely needed. It is simply a question of what reforms to implement.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:18 am to Tigerlaff
1 is wrong. Heavy fines to people who hire them and no handouts would send all the illegals back in a hurry. No money, no illegals.
You seem to be very much for amnesty. Just state it. Wed don't need a book to summarize it.
You seem to be very much for amnesty. Just state it. Wed don't need a book to summarize it.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:20 am to arcalades
quote:
1 is wrong. Heavy fines to people who hire them and no handouts would send all the illegals back in a hurry. No money, no illegals.
Do you have any idea how many businesses there are in the US? This would be just as difficult as deporting them all.
quote:
You seem to be very much for amnesty. Just state it. Wed don't need a book to summarize it.
It is precisely that kind of knee-jerk inability to have a nuanced conversation that has led to the shite show we have today. Thanks. If you think the best thing to do is find the money to monitor every business in the US and deport every single illegal alien here, just say so. At least we will know where you stand.
This post was edited on 12/9/14 at 10:31 am
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:23 am to Tigerlaff
quote:
There are many other specific things I would do to the immigration system, but they are beyond the scope of this post. I'd like to hear your thoughts on what should be done. The only thing I want to stridently argue is this: the system does not work fine and it is woefully underfunded, undermanned, and overtaxed. Reform is absolutely needed. It is simply a question of what reforms to implement.
I like your solutions, but I think the fork between becoming a permanent legal resident and citizenship should be at the same time. 3 years and then 10 years for citizenship, which I think Is a pretty long time to wait.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:28 am to inelishaitrust
I want recognition that most people who come come for freedom and the opportunity to work and make money for their family. They should be allowed to stay. The others must go.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:29 am to Tigerlaff
quote:
2) There is realistically no "get in line and wait" process for anyone without an advanced education, extraordinary ability, or family ties to the US. Your average high school educated Mexican citizen would have to win a spot through the diversity quota lottery system, which is essentially impossible today. I am not saying this is a problem. I just want to dispel the myth that anyone can come here legally if they are patient and law-abiding.
It is the problem...we need a viable work visa program for unskilled labor...without it the flood continues and through our other laws and now very heavy border protection we incent them to stay once here.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:30 am to arcalades
quote:
Heavy fines to people who hire them
This would probably be harder to enforce than attempting to deport everyone.
quote:
and no handouts
Illegals aren't eligible for handouts, they come for yobs.
quote:
You seem to be very much for amnesty. Just state it. Wed don't need a book to summarize it.
You seem out of your depth.
This post was edited on 12/9/14 at 10:32 am
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:34 am to cwill
quote:wrong. A few mega fines and wouldn't have to enforce very often after that.
This would probably be harder to enforce than attempting to deport everyone.
quote:lack of eligibility doesn't stop them. they aren't eligible for the amnesty obama just gave them, but yet here we are. You live in a fantasy world, not reality.
Illegals aren't eligible for handouts, they come for yobs.
quote:way to refute me. You have so much depth you offer nothing of substance. well done, oh deep one.
You seem out of your depth.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:35 am to JEAUXBLEAUX
quote:
I want recognition that most people who come come for freedom and the opportunity to work and make money for their family. They should be allowed to stay. The others must go.
I agree with you in the sense that people who have done nothing more than cross the border illegally should not be the continual money pits we are making them into. It just isn't worth it. However, we have to address them in some coherent way. Do you advocate permanent guest-worker status? Instant citizenship?
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:35 am to inelishaitrust
quote:
I like your solutions, but I think the fork between becoming a permanent legal resident and citizenship should be at the same time. 3 years and then 10 years for citizenship, which I think Is a pretty long time to wait.
I would support this as well.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:37 am to cwill
quote:
It is the problem...we need a viable work visa program for unskilled labor...without it the flood continues and through our other laws and now very heavy border protection we incent them to stay once here.
I would agree with this as well. A non-skilled visa should be created for non-agricultural jobs that is as easy to obtain as a B visa. It would be infinitely better than what is happening now.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:38 am to arcalades
quote:
ack of eligibility doesn't stop them. they aren't eligible for the amnesty obama just gave them, but yet here we are. You live in a fantasy world, not reality.
Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about...you're just "dang illegals, thanks obama!".
quote:
way to refute me. You have so much depth you offer nothing of substance. well done, oh deep one.
From you.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:39 am to Tigerlaff
quote:
I would agree with this as well. A non-skilled visa should be created for non-agricultural jobs that is as easy to obtain as a B visa. It would be infinitely better than what is happening now.
I think it would show that most don't really want to settle down permanently in the US...they want to work here, send money home to the family and ultimately permanently reside in MX.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:48 am to Tigerlaff
Well at least you're bringing some ideas to the table.
We are never going to create a fortified border with a friendly country.
They can already do some of these things. Locals detaining those in violation of federal law is nothing new.
Agree. It won't be popular, but aside from mass deportations, what's the alternative? Why not acknowledge the reality? Hell, even if you push the citizenship path bot 25 years or remove it altogether, at least stop pretending that they don't exist.
I kind of like this one. Though I don't think deporting them for even one felony is setting the bar too high.
quote:
1. We should dedicate a significant amount of resources to securing the entire southern border. I would even support a drastic cut in defense spending in order to accomplish it. All other legislation should be delayed until the border is secured.
We are never going to create a fortified border with a friendly country.
quote:
Border states should be allowed to enforce some provisions of federal immigration law. ICE and USCBP are massively overextended and need the help. The state authorities should be allowed to assist with enforcement, but leave the judicial proceedings to the feds.
They can already do some of these things. Locals detaining those in violation of federal law is nothing new.
quote:
3. Create a new status for illegals who have American immediate relatives (parent, spouse, or unmarried child over 21 years) and no criminal record. There are millions of people in this category that are taxing the resources of the immigration system for no good reason. Make this status contingent upon several factors, including no use of social welfare programs and no criminal convictions whatsoever. Allow these individuals to apply for permanent resident status after 7 years. Once they are LPRs, they can wait another 5 years for citizenship. This gives them a 12 year minimum before voting becomes a right.
Agree. It won't be popular, but aside from mass deportations, what's the alternative? Why not acknowledge the reality? Hell, even if you push the citizenship path bot 25 years or remove it altogether, at least stop pretending that they don't exist.
quote:
4. Create a new form of permanent residency that the aforementioned illegals with American families could apply for after 3 years in the country with no social welfare and no crime. This LPR status would be permanent. It will allow them to remain in the US with their families, work, but never vote. Once granted this type of permanent residency, they cannot adjust to any other status. They can only be deported for crimes of violence or maxing out a "3 strike" felony rule. This will provide an easier and more secure route for those already here who are not willing to put in the 12 years of perfect behavior it would require to become citizens. If they do not apply for this status after 3 years in country, they are automatically presumed to be upon the 7-year LPR track mentioned in part 3. You have to make your choice after 3 years.
I kind of like this one. Though I don't think deporting them for even one felony is setting the bar too high.
This post was edited on 12/9/14 at 11:13 am
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:50 am to cwill
quote:
I think it would show that most don't really want to settle down permanently in the US...they want to work here, send money home to the family and ultimately permanently reside in MX.
Probably true. Maybe we can have a debate about protectionism in the labor market if that proves so. In the meantime, I'd just like to stop total strangers without vaccinations or background checks from strolling on over. It's just stupid policy.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:51 am to Tigerlaff
Deport all illegals then land mine the border.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:54 am to Zach
quote:
land mine the border.
$500B in trade says no.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:55 am to Navytiger74
quote:
We are never going to create a fortified border with a friendly country.
I don't necessarily mean an Israel/West Bank type of border. Possibly more dedicated drone surveillance and increased patrols. The fence is probably not feasible and can be undermined easily. Basically, we would just have to decided to spend more money on it.
In my opinion, doing things like securing the border is emphatically a role of the government and a valid use of tax dollars. I would support more spending in this area if it proves effective.
quote:
They can already do some of these things. Locals detaining those in violation of federal law is nothing new.
Sure, but there are limits on holding periods for which they have to turn them over. I would support much greater integration of state law enforcement into the detention arm of things.
This post was edited on 12/9/14 at 10:57 am
Posted on 12/9/14 at 10:57 am to Navytiger74
quote:
$500B in trade says no.
They won't stop trading. They need stuff.
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