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re: Obamacare Appeal --- Jonathan Gruber doing more work

Posted on 11/16/14 at 2:58 pm to
Posted by FalseProphet
Mecca
Member since Dec 2011
11708 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 2:58 pm to
Well, it's what Congress actually intended and not what Gruber said he thinks they intended.

That video in no way establishes Congressional intent. Let me repeat that, that video in no way establishes Congressional intent. Even you admit that at best, it casts doubt on Congressional intent. So, what is the fact you think they should take judicial notice of?
Posted by MMauler
Member since Jun 2013
19216 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 2:58 pm to
quote:

I honestly worry about people like you who automatically bash someone who doesn't agree with them.


I've read your crap on here, and to put it mildly, you're completely full of sh!t.
Posted by MMauler
Member since Jun 2013
19216 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:01 pm to
quote:

So, what is the fact you think they should take judicial notice of?


You can't be this f*cking stupid.
Posted by FalseProphet
Mecca
Member since Dec 2011
11708 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:02 pm to
I don't know what "crap" you're referring to, but to each his own. ill continue to clean up your mess when you tell people that Gruber can't take the Fifth and there is absolutely no problem with the SC taking judicial notice of some abstract fact in a case of paramount importance.

In any way, I guess we'll just have to both celebrate if it gets gutted. Maybe then you can acknowledge that you were wrong and full of shite.
Posted by FalseProphet
Mecca
Member since Dec 2011
11708 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:03 pm to
So the fact is that Gruber thinks that was what congress intended?

ETA:

Let me make ask you this differently because you still won't answer the question. If you were on the SC and got to write the sentence or paragraph taking judicial notice of these videos and explaining the fact proven and the importance, what would it say?
This post was edited on 11/16/14 at 3:06 pm
Posted by MMauler
Member since Jun 2013
19216 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:10 pm to
quote:

So the fact is that Gruber thinks that was what congress intended?


This case isn't going to come down to Congressional intent. No one read the f*cking bill before it was passed. There's nothing in the record about its meaning because there is NO record. It was written by the Obama Administration behind closed doors with the help of the "architect" Gruber.

The case will be decided based upon whether the Supremes should disregard the actual wording of the statute because the Odumbf*ck administration is claiming that it contains a mere "typo". They'll tell the Supremes that they should completely disregard the PLAIN MEANING as written by claiming that there can be no other possible reading of the statute "taken as a whole".

What the Gruber video shows is that not only is there another possible reading, but that it is the ONLY possible reading -- i.e., it should be read as F*CKING WRITTEN as it was purposefully written that way with the help and assistance of the "architect of Odumbf*ckCare," Gruber.
Posted by FalseProphet
Mecca
Member since Dec 2011
11708 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:14 pm to
Got it. So the only thing Congress could have intended was what what this guy thinks they intended.

Yea, theres no hope of judicial notice ever being taken on that fact.

And, I think there's a lot of people who would dispute the import of his statements.
This post was edited on 11/16/14 at 3:15 pm
Posted by MMauler
Member since Jun 2013
19216 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:17 pm to
I admit I was wrong --- you are that f*cking stupid.
Posted by FalseProphet
Mecca
Member since Dec 2011
11708 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:22 pm to
When you've lost the battle, the name calling begins. I'd be willing to bet my posting privileges that you will see no such statement regarding Grubers videos in the majority opinion. You MIGHT find it buried a dissent if the conservatives lose the case, but that's about it.

But keep telling yourself that these videos are important enough to warrant judicial fact finding as to a possibility of intent. In fact, you want the SC to infer congressional intent as stated by a person who is not a member of congress.
This post was edited on 11/16/14 at 3:25 pm
Posted by MMauler
Member since Jun 2013
19216 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:24 pm to
I'll bet you posting privileges that it will come up and be discussed.

quote:

But keep telling yourself that these videos are important enough to warrant judicial fact finding as to a possibility of intent. In fact, you want the SC to infer congressional intent as stated by a person who is not a member of congress.


I said no such thing.
This post was edited on 11/16/14 at 3:26 pm
Posted by FalseProphet
Mecca
Member since Dec 2011
11708 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:26 pm to
No doubt Scalia will raise it at argument. But oral arguments aren't the opinion.
Posted by RCDfan1950
United States
Member since Feb 2007
35167 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:34 pm to
Interesting, NC. Correct me if I err, but did not the Chief Justice approve of an utterly unlawful ruling in that last challenge, and all for the sake of the credibility of the Supreme Court and giving the electorate one more chance to decide their *real* desires in the election?

Now if the SC makes ANOTHER contrarian ruling in favor of ACA, yet obviously against both Law and the electorally-expressed current will of the substantial majority...do they then risk losing total respect and legal viability?

And this don't even consider that the whole ACA was sold in a FRAUDULENT misrepresentation of it's innate character and effect on the citizenry.

My take...they had best shut this baby down, and tell the Congress and the President to get their asses to work, IN FULL VIEW, with honest numbers and true information as to whether the young/healthy will pay for slackers, old folk, illegals, etc., and whether they will FIRE bureaucrats and low-life idiots who hold power over our health care (VA style)...but screw it up.

The SC has one more chance to underpin their relevance...even morality. Or they deserve to be compared to tits on a boar hog; there...but outmoded and worthless.
Posted by MMauler
Member since Jun 2013
19216 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:35 pm to
quote:

No doubt Scalia will raise it at argument.


By doing so, he is taking judicial notice as it's not currently in the record. There is nothing in the above noted rule of evidence that states a judge must affirmative state that he/she is taking judicial notice of a fact.

When whoever writes the majority opinion does so, he may not feel he even needs to mention it because this case is a slam dunk without it. The opinion could simply say when a statute is clear on its face and can easily be interpreted and applied in the manner in which it is written, there is no need to look at extraneous materials. There are thousands of cases that stand for that proposition. But, the author could mention it if he wishes though - especially if he wants to present it as a rebuttal to the Odumbf*ck Administration's absurd claim that it's merely a "typo" -- it's clearly within their purview under the rules of evidence.

This post was edited on 11/16/14 at 3:41 pm
Posted by FalseProphet
Mecca
Member since Dec 2011
11708 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:41 pm to
No, raising a question at oral argument is not taking judicial notice. Not at all. Judges can ask whatever the hell they want, but it doesn't make it fact.

Where did you learn all of this judicial procedure so wrongly?

Posted by MMauler
Member since Jun 2013
19216 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:45 pm to
Please show us in the rules of evidence where judicial notice must be evidenced in a written opinion?

In many cases, especially at the trial level, judges take judicial notice without expressly stating that they're taking judicial notice, and there is never a written opinion.

Nothing in the rules state that a judge must affirmatively state that he/she took judicial notice. That doesn't mean he/she didn't.

This post was edited on 11/16/14 at 5:26 pm
Posted by FalseProphet
Mecca
Member since Dec 2011
11708 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:48 pm to
As did I. But congressional intent is not satisfied by a YouTube video by a guy stating what he believes or thinks Congress intended.

And, while it doesn't have to be written, you are not going to hear one person say they are taking
judicial notice of a fact at the SC. Not one.

ETA: do you realize how absurd your notice argument is? For this to matter at all, they would have to take judicial notice that he is the architect of the bill, then they would have to take notice that his intent is Congress' intent, and then they videos MIGHT matter. That's a lot of judicial fact finding.
This post was edited on 11/16/14 at 3:51 pm
Posted by MMauler
Member since Jun 2013
19216 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:50 pm to
quote:

But congressional intent is not satisfied by a YouTube video by a guy stating what he believes or thinks Congress intended.


Your reading comprehension skill are severely lacking... SEVERELY.
Posted by FalseProphet
Mecca
Member since Dec 2011
11708 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:51 pm to
Quote a portion, make a slam, offer no substance. That's been most of your strategy in this thread.
Posted by MMauler
Member since Jun 2013
19216 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:55 pm to
quote:

And, while it doesn't have to be written, you are not going to hear one person say they are taking judicial notice of a fact at the SC. Not one.



They don't have to use the words, "I AM HEREBY TAKING JUDICIAL NOTICE" of this fact.

The mere fact that they, as an appellate court, are asking or presenting something that is not currently in the record, means that they are taking judicial notice.

If Scalia asks Odumbf*ck's Solicitor, "Isn't it a fact that the architect of Odumbf*ckCare has stated that this part of the statute was written purposefully to exclude enrollees in the Federal exchange from receiving a subsidy," he is taking judicial notice of this fact NOT IN THE RECORD. Gruber has already joined in an amicus brief in the lower courts stating that it's merely a typo. This rebuts that brief, as well as the Odumbf*ck Administration's entire argument.
Posted by FalseProphet
Mecca
Member since Dec 2011
11708 posts
Posted on 11/16/14 at 3:56 pm to
And, all the government has to do is say he is not the architect of the bill and any notion of establishing a fact is out of the window.

I hope your judge didn't leap several steps in order to take judicial notice of facts.
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